After reading some of the responses from senior members who are enjoying this new product, I've come to realize that posting my complaints about Flight really doesn't help anything. This is your forum to discuss this new game as a group of people actually playing it. Who am I to come in and crash the party just because it isn't my cup of tea?There are some good things here. Maybe Flight will broaden the flight enthusiast audience. Maybe this will lead to a broad enough audience to justify investing development resources in FS11. Maybe it will bring in new friends who otherwise would not get involved in our little world. Or maybe there will be a lot more people who download it, enjoy it, and come to Avsim to get the same great benefits of this community that we have all gotten over the years.I have good reasons to complain, but I can do that somewhere else.So, enjoy your new game. I'm sorry for crashing your party. It's all stick and rudder. The rest is just ascii.-MJL

No, thank you for understanding what "we" are trying to accomplish here. Which is to say to create a friendly environment where we can each share little tips and tricks to getting the most out of what we have, and welcome any and all "new blood" into the fraternity of flight simulation enthusiasts.

Thank you MJL. I really appreciate that. It takes wisdom to know and express that kind of understanding. I suspect that all of us wish things were different than what they are by varying degrees. However Flight is what it is and deserves a fair shot right out of the gate.Kind regards,

Thank you!I'm one of the supporters of Flight; on the basis that any flight simulator is better than no flight simulator.If Flight can make money for MS, there is a much higher chance of the hobby being able to continue and grow. It would be a terrible thing for flight Simming if FSX were the last great sim. While I have utmost respect for what the Xplane team are doing, it is a plain fact that big software titles now cost hundreds of millions of dollars - MS are the only group around these days with the budget to put into flight simming.Criticism of any product is fine; as long as it is constructive.Unfortunately the vast majority of what we have seen directed against Flight, and almost personally against MS and some of Flights developer's is, quite frankly, puerile abuse.Terms like 'betrayal' are used, as if MS personally owed these people something.It's embarrassing for a start, and worse still it allows MS to make decisions like "Well, if they are going to be like that, lets just call it a day and forget all about Flight Sims" which could be termed a lose-lose scenario. It also turns away new people - who wants to join a community like that behaves like a bunch of jerks? (I'm not calling you a jerk!)Thank you for not raining on Flight's parade.Who knows, maybe in a few years time we can all get getting excited about Flight 2!

Edited March 1, 201214 yr by corinoco

Terms like 'betrayal' are used, as if MS personally owed these people something.

I know... and "bait & switch"... as if promised one thing and given another...It is nuts...Too much emotional baggage that needs to be jettisoned.Thanks MJL for that post... hopefully "others" will clue in... most if not all of us could whine about something... that's easy.Here's an idea... Maybe Tom could open up a "Sounds like a Personal Problem" Forum... and all those "it's a child's game" etc... posts could go there!

Good post, MJL!And these are great replies:

No, thank you for understanding what "we" are trying to accomplish here. Which is to say to create a friendly environment where we can each share little tips and tricks to getting the most out of what we have, and welcome any and all "new blood" into the fraternity of flight simulation enthusiasts.

Thank you MJL. I really appreciate that. It takes wisdom to know and express that kind of understanding. I suspect that all of us wish things were different than what they are by varying degrees. However Flight is what it is and deserves a fair shot right out of the gate.

And here are the types of totally unconstructive replies we really don't need:

Unfortunately the vast majority of what we have seen directed against Flight, and almost personally against MS and some of Flights developer's is, quite frankly, puerile abuse.Terms like 'betrayal' are used, as if MS personally owed these people something.

I know... and "bait & switch"... as if promised one thing and given another...It is nuts...Too much emotional baggage that needs to be jettisoned.

Cheers,- jahman.

I take the OP post as a farewell post.It is interesting to note that everyone is happy to exchange long-time simulation fans - who might leave the hobby altogether - for new blood - who might join the hobby at a yet undetermined level of interest.

I get it - you are angry, and disappointed.. and you are not alone. I would say that most long timeflight simmers are disappointed that Flight is not FS11. I certainly am.But continuing to focus on this misery is frankly not going to get us anywhere.If you do not like Flight, go back to the FS9 or FSX forum where life continues and good fun can be had!If you want to explore Flight some more, stick around and see what this community can figure out,and what MS has to offer over the next months..

Edited March 1, 201214 yr by Bert Pieke

I think we will ALL be dissapointed to some extent. There will always be something, or even many things for some, that aren't simulated either at all, or the way we'd like them.Just like we've done with EVERY SINGLE flightsim release thus far, we have to make the best of it, and it's places like Avsim, and the fine people within it, that help us to just that.

Edited March 1, 201214 yr by Dougal

It is interesting to note that everyone is happy to exchange long-time simulation fans - who might leave the hobby altogether - for new blood - who might join the hobby at a yet undetermined level of interest.

I'm not seeing it that way at all.If new members join AVSIM because they like Flight, that is a very good thing for our community.No one is telling current members, who don't happen to like Flight to leave AVSIM.

I'm not seeing it that way at all.If new members join AVSIM because they like Flight, that is a very good thing for our community.No one is telling current members, who don't happen to like Flight to leave AVSIM.

Arwen stop that! Thinking what I'm thinking and posting at the same time!lol

Edited March 1, 201214 yr by newthog

If you do not like Flight, go back to the FS9 or FSX forum where life continues and good fun can be had!

Bert, I don't think these kinds of statements are helpful. FSX is 6 years old and by now you should realize many of us are disappointed we are not going to get the performance improvements and scenery enhancements that will come with Flight. Many thanks for your understanding!Cheers,- jahman.

I'm not seeing it that way at all.If new members join AVSIM because they like Flight, that is a very good thing for our community.No one is telling current members, who don't happen to like Flight to leave AVSIM.

Many people have given up on flying FS9 or FSX years ago, for one reason or another. They were looking forward to XP10 and it turned out to be a letdown. They were looking forward to a new and improved FSX(I) and they got Flight.Now when they try to express their displeasure, they are told to leave the Flight forum and go back to FS9 or FSX. Some of these people were not big on buying $50-80 add-ons and they got what they could from previous sims. They were looking forward to something new and they are being ignored not only by MS, but by AVSIM as well.Not only does MS not care about what long time supporters have to say, but the place where they thought they could express their opinions turns them away as well. What I see in this forum is that people virtually high-five each other when someone gets banned or is told to get lost because their opinions don't matter to anyone. Before I get corrected on this by AVSIM staff, I know they were banned for bad behavior, but that stemmed mostly from their frustration with Flight and this forum.So while I agree that getting new people into the hobby is great, treating long-time simmers the way some have been treated is rather sad. The AVSIM review and that other one with a link around here somewhere make sport out of belittling the simmers who do not find Flight to their liking for one reason or another. They practically dance around joyfully that they are in the group that like Flight and people in this forum cheer them on. Sad indeed.So I stand by my statement, that it seems to me that long-time supporters of MSFS are being pushed aside in favor of who might be some very young new Flight players and it is being done rather happily by some people.

Edited March 1, 201214 yr by Attila

Attila writes far better than I ever will, so I will shamelessly plagiarize his post, and add some bolding of my own.

Many people have given up on flying FS9 or FSX years ago, for one reason or another. They were looking forward to XP10 and it turned out to be a letdown. They were looking forward to a new and improved FSX(I) and they got Flight.Now when they try to express their displeasure, they are told to leave the Flight forum and go back to FS9 or FSX. Some of these people were not big on buying $50-80 add-ons and they got what they could from previous sims. They were looking forward to something new and they are being ignored not only by MS, but by AVSIM as well.Not only does MS not care about what long time supporters have to say, but the place where they thought they could express their opinions turns them away as well. What I see in this forum is that people virtually high-five each other when someone gets banned or is told to get lost because their opinions don't matter to anyone. Before I get corrected on this by AVSIM staff, I know they were banned for bad behavior, but that stemmed mostly from their frustration with Flight and this forum.So while I agree that getting new people into the hobby is great, treating long-time simmers the way some have been treated is rather sad. The AVSIM review and that other one with a link around here somewhere make sport out of belittling the simmers who do not find Flight to their liking for one reason or another. They practically dance around joyfully that they are in the group that like Flight and people in this forum cheer them on. Sad indeed.So I stand by my statement, that it seems to me that long-time supporters of MSFS are being pushed aside in favor of who might be some very young new Flight players and it is being done rather happily by some people.

Cheers,- jaman.OK Attilla and Jaman,Cool it and take a breather for awhile. You have made your points repeatedly and forcefully that are understood by those that read them. Thank you for understanding and taking this hint.Kind regards,

And here are the types of totally unconstructive replies we really don't need:

Sounds like a personal problem Jahman...I am sick to death of all the whining and complaining going on about Microsoft "did not give me what I want" then the obligatory throwing the toys out of the pram. All the cry baby responses! Grow up!So it is "constructive" in the sense that maybe it gets the tweens (and those who are supposed to be adults) to "shut their clap trap" and try to discuss in reasonable, sensible manner. Or take it some where else.

Bert, I don't think these kinds of statements are helpful. FSX is 6 years old and by now you should realize many of us are disappointed we are not going to get the performance improvements and scenery enhancements that will come with Flight. Many thanks for your understanding!

This forum is not here cater to whatever emotional baggage, or your "disappointments" you carry because you did not get what you want. I don't want to hear it. THAT is what is "totally unconstructive".

So I stand by my statement, that it seems to me that long-time supporters of MSFS are being pushed aside

More of the "Microsoft owes me" blah blah blah... please check that at the door. Thank you very much!Again, all the whining, complaining gets us nowhere... it's futile... and this forum is not meant for such nonsense.You had your "Lord of the Flies" forum and that was shut down. Or is that the goal here? Complain enough with the hopes Tom will shut this one down too?Great Ozzie,Cool it and take a breather for awhile. You have made your points repeatedly and forcefully that are understood by those that read them. Thank you for understanding and taking this hint.Kind regards,