/me stifles a yawn

 

Can we have a stickied "why I don't like Flight/why I am going back to FSX/XP10/Why I hate MS for destroying my life" type threads? That way we can quarantine them all. They take up so much space and always end up sounding like a stuck record..

 

I'm sorry to have to flog a dead horse, but If you don't like Flight, and are re-installing/starting to use/have just bought FSX/XP10 because you feel hard done by/ripped off go onto their forum(s) and tell them..People here (for the most part) are giving Flight a chance. Whether you like it or not, they have decided that that is their path, and it is entirely their perogative to do so.

 

It's as boring listening to it all as it is only having Hawaii to fly around (no, I'm not a Flight-hater, I'm using Flight, FSX and P3D and loving them all)

 

Go and take a deep breath and just don't install or use the software if you don't want to! Stop cluttering up the Flight forum with endless posts re-hashing the same old arguments..

 

Perhaps AVSIM can start a new forum (according to the front pages you can do it yourself) for Flight deniers/people who want to rant about it?

 

Cue incoming flame about the posts not "allowing" non-Flight users to express their feelings

 

J

Can we have a stickied "why I don't like Flight/why I am going back to FSX/XP10/Why I hate MS for destroying my life" type threads? That way we can quarantine them all. They take up so much space and always end up sounding like a stuck record..

 

I see a great addition to the forum system coming: Users being able to tag other users. Oh my, it'll be XYZ-###### tags all over the place.

And even if true, what of it? You have no need at all to follow this "Mule" if you choose not to, nor any right to continually badger those who do. You have made your feelings known repeatedly, yet simmering resentment apparently drives you to express your unhappiness anew. To what constructive purpose, I wonder?

 

Now is it also forbidden to joke a bit in a forum about a sim/game? I don't know about you, but for me flight simulation is a pleasant hobby, not a critical work. So I like to frequent several forums to discuss with people and exchange opinions, and considering the subject, I think it is normal sometimes to use soft irony.

You seem so grim about the whole thing, I'm sorry for you, while n4gix seems to have fully understood the spirit of my mule joke

 

A.

 

The freeware Paris scenery at that site is for X-plane 9.50. Is that fully compatible with X-plane 10 ?

To to OP I apologise for going off topic.

 

I installed it in my full copy of XP-10, and it seem working perfectly, integrating seamlessy with the new night lighting system.

 

Note: I don't want to go too much OT, so for further discussions about XP probably it's better to use the dedicated section of the AVSIM forums.

 

A.

@ Antlab: that was a joke, but you can't deny a lot of your (and others) posts give the impression that you (and others) are indeed very "irritated" (can i use that word without being offensive? as that is the last thing I want to be) and make a very passionate defence of FSX and your "right" to be annoyed with MS for changing their Flight Sim road map (as is your perogative)

 

I know you wren't replying to me, but it just perpetuates the comments..I was just saying that I think they (the negative comments) need to be put somewhere else, as they aren't really appropriate in a forum about Flight and its use.

 

There needs to be a forum for people who don't like Flight (I am actually defending the rights of ppl to slag it off, just somewhere else)

 

You can't blame people for picking this up, even if this was a joke..when so many abusive and ill-informed posts keep coming up about the MS/Flight/FSX/XP10 quadrangle/venn diagram..It's been done to death now.. Move on..(not specifically you!)

 

there is a very good review of Flight by Steve Hogarty (who is usually very, very funny) in this months PC Gamer (87%) where he says "it is an exciting additon to a sadly mothballed genre" and then goes on to list what is good about Flight..This is a constructive and objective review from a reviewer who traditionally didn't review flight sims (Tim Stone did for PC Zone whcih was my tipple beore it imploded) he lists what he considers to be not so good: "strangely the P-51 has no cockpit" He obv doesn't read AVSIM :lol:

 

J

@ Antlab: that was a joke, but you can't deny a lot of your (and others) posts give the impression that you (and others) are indeed very "irritated" (can i use that word without being offensive? as that is the last thing I want to be) and make a very passionate defence of FSX and your "right" to be annoyed with MS for changing their Flight Sim road map (as is your perogative)

 

Actually I think "irritated" is not the correct word. Probably "sad" or "sorry" would be more suitable, at least in my case. As I said several times, many players during decades have developed some sort of feeling with historical series as Flight Simulator or Sim City, and obviously they are not happy when the developers put an end. In any case, I continue to follow this forum because we are still in the first stages of Flight development, so it is interesting seeing how it is shaped, and the views of the players about their experience.

 

I know you wren't replying to me, but it just perpetuates the comments..I was just saying that I think they (the negative comments) need to be put somewhere else, as they aren't really appropriate in a forum about Flight and its use.

There needs to be a forum for people who don't like Flight (I am actually defending the rights of ppl to slag it off, just somewhere else)

You can't blame people for picking this up, even if this was a joke..when so many abusive and ill-informed posts keep coming up about the MS/Flight/FSX/XP10 quadrangle/venn diagram..It's been done to death now.. Move on..(not specifically you!)

 

I respectfully don't agree with your position. As in almost any other forum, there are always comparisons between the main subject and other alternatives. This is very useful, so people can better evaluate the charateristics of the game, and choose in an informed way where spending their time and money. Here on AVSIM, we all know what happened to the previous Flight forum, and how strict the moderators have become respect to "too strong" critics about the new MS product. But, if I understand correctly, some people would completely delete any voice that don't simply praise the game, but politely express different views. I suspect that the moderators don't want to follow that route, because they know that any forum needs dialectics, otherwise people tend to search for more liberal alternatives.

Just as a final joke, with your cute avatar I can easily understand why you are not particular at ease with different opinions

 

A.

I was just saying that I think they (the negative comments) need to be put somewhere else, as they aren't really appropriate in a forum about Flight and its use.

I also have to disagree with you about this. Any game forum (including flightsims) is going to have both positive and negative posts. This is NOT the Flight Fan Club, but a place where flightsimmers can discuss MS Flight.

 

Negative comments about Flight are fine, as long as they have a point. beyond just a constant bashing of Flight.

@ Arwen and Antlab: please re-read my posts; I didn't make myself clear enough (probably the same as some of the people I am "criticising")

 

I am talking specifically about the threads that spread over three or four pages and continually re-hash the same negative and similar point(s) being made since (before) Flight came out. These pseudo-polite threads have taken the place of the ruder and less abstract ones, but are still essentally the same. They are Flight-bashing in fancy clothes..

 

Of course there IS a place here for discussion about how we, as the customers, would like to see the series progress, but, for now, that hsn't happened the way we, as long-term users, would have expected..And because of that, Instead, we get endelss posts about why Flight isn't satisfying some users (and that's being polite)..

 

As I have said, i do not object to this (as if I have any say anyway) but I do think it detracts from a useful resource for users who are actively using the product..jeez, if all my work-based forums, where users of particular bits of software and hardware had endless discusion topics about how C*&p the product was, they would be taken down or moved to the appropriate forum..Just my 2-cents worth..It could even be a sub-forum of the Flight forum..I am NOT sugesting people have no voice. that would be as damaging as having what went before the forum was archived..

 

I'm all for healthy comparison and discussion, but it just gets boring hearing about all those people who have uninstalled Flight because..(insert reason here) That's fine. Uninstall it! Then go an tell the FSX forum you have done so. They want to hear it!

 

And remember: these are just my opinions, given in (hopefully) the same spirit as the less positive but still constructive comments are made

 

j

 

EDIT: On reflection, I will just take my own advice and just not read the posts!

The following is part of what I see when I desire to make a post on a new topic here in the Flight forum:

" You are about to post a new topic to the FLIGHT forum. FLIGHT has been released and this forum is now a support forum for its users. Whether MS was right, wrong or indifferent to the FS community is now water under the bridge. If your post is an attempt to re-open discussion of MS's rights or wrongs, it will be removed."

 

There is more in that quote, but to me that is the gist of what the theme of this forum is.

 

I would agree negatives can and should be discussed. Where things go astray is when the topic then gets to " what Flight should have been, and is not", or " Microsoft abandoned it's core flight sim community", etc etc.

These are the things that I read as " water under the bridge". No one here can go back and change this, it is what it is. And it will be, what it will be.

 

Constructive critisism should be welcomed, undoubtedly members of the Flight team pay attention to that on this, and other forums. This can help change how Flight progresses going forward. We have already had hints to that effect, for instance Track IR support, and toe-brake axis support , along with some other things. What will not happen, is change Flight immediately to become FS11. It is a very different product approaching the market in a very different way. We are not going to get the whole globe in exquisite detail with Flight anytime soon, and I would be surprised if we ever did.

 

But that is ok for me, I will enjoy Flight for what it is, hope for some things to be added in the future, and use my FSX install to satisfy my needs that I may not get with Flight in the meantime. I think after 6 years, I finally have FSX running at an acceptable level to where I can take a break from all the tweaking.

 

If some of these other developers were smart, and the market is there for the extremely realistic flight simulator, the door is wide open for them now to come up with a better product - and if they did, the more serious flight sim community would undoubtedly support it.

 

All of the above of course, just my humble opinion.

heh @ Antlab..I don't look like him nor do I carry a gun :grin: I am perfectly open to creative and constructive criticism (I love an argument as much as the next (wo)man though LOL)

 

But Don has said it much better than me..We need to be more constructive..We have so many devs here..Falcon 4.0 was carried on by the community..Why can't they do the same with FSX? (answers in a different thread please LOL)

 

j

@ Arwen and Antlab: please re-read my posts; I didn't make myself clear enough (probably the same as some of the people I am "criticising")

 

I am talking specifically about the threads that spread over three or four pages and continually re-hash the same negative and similar point(s) being made since (before) Flight came out. These pseudo-polite threads have taken the place of the ruder and less abstract ones, but are still essentally the same. They are Flight-bashing in fancy clothes..

 

I'm pretty sure that I understand your post. But we have the exact same issue from several members here who seem to view Flight as the best thing since sliced bread. How many threads are there in this forum about how wonderful Flight is, or about a user who has become a Flight convert? What do Flight fan threads really contribute to this forum?

 

This thread began by criticizing people who have been critical of Flight. So you are going to have a number of users here take issue with that . . . and rightfully so.

 

I guess I could only allow threads that offer concrete help on Flight, and delete any post that praise or criticize Flight. But is that what you all want?

Arwen: I second that.

the exact same issue from several members here who seem to view Flight as the best thing since sliced bread

 

Not me, Arwen. If you look at the majority of my posts on AVSIM they are not even about Flight, but I am neither a hater nor a lover..I'm uncomfortable with being either tbh..As I have stated before, I do like Flight; And FSX; And P3D.

 

Flight is a stress-reliever for me, and FSX is for my more attentive moments (fewer and fewer these days!) and P3D is for the future...

 

And no, I wouldn't want what you suggest at the end of your post, but is that it? It has to be that or loads of five-page posts about why Flight is bad (or good)?

 

I agree that the posts about how great Flight is don't really advance the issue, either, but at least they are being positive about stuff, not endlessly re-hashing the same old argument..that is my issue; that these threads turn into 4-5 pages of arguments that we've already had, over and over..

 

Please come up with some new ones is all I'm saying, or say it somewhere else.

 

And I'll say it again, as I don't think you do catch my drift: I do not deny anyone the right to disagree about a product, nor to vent their fury (in some cases) about why it's not for them.

 

My point is: We know. We know. We know. I too have issues with Flight, (and am very sad that MS didn't make FS11) but I have emailed them to the Flight devs, as they are the ONLY people here who can change anything.

 

I am going to stop now as I too am contributing to the paper-trail LOL

 

J

I guess I could only allow threads that offer concrete help on Flight, and delete any post that praise or criticize Flight. But is that what you all want?

 

Of course not. The things is that each one believes that knows what is expected from the ideal simulator. And often we don't agree. In fact, from my personal view, the best simulator is Flight Gear. But I know that 99.99% of AVSIM users don't agree with me and it's an empty discussion trying to show my point of view, even when the arguments are things like "if it's free it's sucks".

 

If someone thinks that the best simulator is the one that allows complex system like PMDG airliners it's also an empty discussion trying to show the benefits (or pseudo benefits) of flight.

This thread began by criticizing people who have been critical of Flight. So you are going to have a number of users here take issue with that . . . and rightfully so.

 

at the risk of antagonising a moderator ( :Just Kidding: ), the thread didn't begin criticising people, it began by criticising people's unrealistic expectations i.e. development of a sim that had Flght's performance and slickness with FSX's scope and depth for less than £30 (or even free!) is unrealistic.

 

Do I wish Flight covered the whole world for no extra cost? of course I do.

 

Do I wish there were fifty aircraft for no extra cost? we all do, surely?

 

Is this realistic for a game that has a fraction of the sales power of Call of Duty or WoW? no!

 

Some people seem determined to take it as a personal criticism. Some people have even made personal (and verging on the insulting) repostes. All of this is fine (and is what a forum is about) it's just obvious that some people are looking for a row that really isn't there.

How many threads are there in this forum about how wonderful Flight is, or about a user who has become a Flight convert? What do Flight fan threads really contribute to this forum?

 

Dang I must be reading this forum differently than some others I guess.

Now I just took a quick look at the first page of threads and I guess I see them differently...

 

I have said it many times before - I am very pleased at how this forum has turned out since the release of Flight. Imho it is one of the best I follow on Avsim, at least for me. I would sure hate to see that change.

I personally do not see anything wrong with someone sharing their excitement over their enjoyment of the Flight program, whether they be a convert, or a "Flight Fan". Heck I thought that was the purpose of a forum such as this, to share each other's experiences and provide help/feedback on issues that others may run into. And from what I have seen this forum has done an excellent job with that.

 

Perhaps I am in the minority...