http://developer.x-plane.com/

 

"One complaint we hear a lot from tech support is that the 747 knobs are hard to control in the 3-d cockpit. Javier and I did some investigation into this; this post describes what we found, what we are changing, and what why I don’t think the scroll wheel probably shouldn’t be used to affect the 3-d cockpit."

 

"We tossed the mouse wheel idea around, but in the end we concluded that the wheel should be a view/zoom/scroll function, not a data change function – we couldn’t find any example apps that used the wheel to change the contents of the screen. In the end, authors need to make clicking work well, and we need to provide manipulators (like the screen-space drag manipulator) to make that possible."

 

 

I just don't understand why they feel zooming with the mouse wheel is clever. Zooming in and out is not as functional as being able to smoothly control a dial. I'm sorry, but I hate that drag scroll design with a passion.

http://developer.x-plane.com/

 

"One complaint we hear a lot from tech support is that the 747 knobs are hard to control in the 3-d cockpit. Javier and I did some investigation into this; this post describes what we found, what we are changing, and what why I don’t think the scroll wheel probably shouldn’t be used to affect the 3-d cockpit."

 

"We tossed the mouse wheel idea around, but in the end we concluded that the wheel should be a view/zoom/scroll function, not a data change function – we couldn’t find any example apps that used the wheel to change the contents of the screen. In the end, authors need to make clicking work well, and we need to provide manipulators (like the screen-space drag manipulator) to make that possible."

 

 

I just don't understand why they feel zooming with the mouse wheel is clever. Zooming in and out is not as functional as being able to smoothly control a dial. I'm sorry, but I hate that drag scroll design with a passion.

 

Ben Said:

"While I was working on pixel drag axis, I looked at using the mouse wheel to turn knobs, something our users asked for. And while the prototype seemed ‘clever’, after some arguments with Chris I came to a bit of an inescapable conclusion: the mouse wheel for changing parts of the panel is the wrong tool for the job."

 

Personally, I really like the way that FSX handles scrollable avionics using the mouse wheel. When I first started using X-plane it is easily the thing I missed using the most, when flitting from sim to sim. The screen drag manipulators take time to get used to and I'm just about au fait with them but I would still much prefer to use the mouse wheel to control an autopilot or avionics stack. But saying that I also like the new mouse scroll zoom too. I thought one the comment on the blog about using a button on the keyboard in combination with the scroll wheel when you want to use it to change values didn't sound like a bad idea.

 

Rhydian

On the pro-side:

Mouse-wheel scrolling is probably the closest analog to actually turning a dial to adjust settings on a flight sim's panel. Chris and Ben couldn't find many apps which use the mouse wheel to change variables because there aren't many applications for which that use is natural. Plus, in productivity apps, mouse wheel scrolling is usually reserved for literally scrolling a window/page down and up. For turning simulated rotary dials, the rotary mouse wheel is the perfect tool for the job.

 

On the con-side:

Most Macs don't have a mouse wheel, so X-Plane designers would still need to have an alternate method for non-PC/linux users to utilize.

 

My compromise:

Use the scroll wheel CLICK feature to toggle between view manipulation and dial scrolling. The system defaults to view manipulation (zoom), click the scroll wheel and you enable the dial functionality, with a mouse cursor change so you know. Click again to return to view manipulation, with a mouse cursor change. Click and hold to pan your view around in a 3D cockpit.

 

It's too bad that 3-platform compatibility is the biggest impediment to this. Although I must admit that most of my personal desire to see mouse wheel scrolling is due to the fact that I would be converting from the MSFS world where this is a tried and true standard alongside clicking, I can understand why they wouldn't want to mess around with what is already a standard operating procedure in the XP world.

http://developer.x-plane.com/

 

"One complaint we hear a lot from tech support is that the 747 knobs are hard to control in the 3-d cockpit. Javier and I did some investigation into this; this post describes what we found, what we are changing, and what why I don’t think the scroll wheel probably shouldn’t be used to affect the 3-d cockpit."

 

"We tossed the mouse wheel idea around, but in the end we concluded that the wheel should be a view/zoom/scroll function, not a data change function – we couldn’t find any example apps that used the wheel to change the contents of the screen. In the end, authors need to make clicking work well, and we need to provide manipulators (like the screen-space drag manipulator) to make that possible."

 

 

I just don't understand why they feel zooming with the mouse wheel is clever. Zooming in and out is not as functional as being able to smoothly control a dial. I'm sorry, but I hate that drag scroll design with a passion.

 

On the pro-side:

Mouse-wheel scrolling is probably the closest analog to actually turning a dial to adjust settings on a flight sim's panel. Chris and Ben couldn't find many apps which use the mouse wheel to change variables because there aren't many applications for which that use is natural. Plus, in productivity apps, mouse wheel scrolling is usually reserved for literally scrolling a window/page down and up. For turning simulated rotary dials, the rotary mouse wheel is the perfect tool for the job.

 

On the con-side:

Most Macs don't have a mouse wheel, so X-Plane designers would still need to have an alternate method for non-PC/linux users to utilize.

 

My compromise:

Use the scroll wheel CLICK feature to toggle between view manipulation and dial scrolling. The system defaults to view manipulation (zoom), click the scroll wheel and you enable the dial functionality, with a mouse cursor change so you know. Click again to return to view manipulation, with a mouse cursor change. Click and hold to pan your view around in a 3D cockpit.

 

It's too bad that 3-platform compatibility is the biggest impediment to this. Although I must admit that most of my personal desire to see mouse wheel scrolling is due to the fact that I would be converting from the MSFS world where this is a tried and true standard alongside clicking, I can understand why they wouldn't want to mess around with what is already a standard operating procedure in the XP world.

When becoming a Mac user, I became (of necessity), an X-Plane user, and have been pleased, overall.  On my first Carenado download (PA46 Malibu), I learned the scroll wheel was an issue, supposedly due Apple touch pads not having a wheel.  I disabled the feature in Plugins, updated SASL, and found changing headings, barometer settings, etc., resulted in the same problem:  imprecise knob/dial movement and, more disturbingly, the arrow-icon thing 'moves' - it jitters about unsteadily, defying precise arrow manipulation.  X-Plane support advised that the built in MacBookPro touchpad was the problem, and a mouse was a must.  OK.  I bought an Apple bluetooth wireless mouse (only two USB ports on the MacBookPro), and ... same problem.  I haven't given up, but neither have I been able to do more with the Malibu than VFR, dead-reckoning.  If you want to reset a waypoint, change headings or do anything else mid-flight, I find pausing the sim to fiddle around is the only solution.  Not satisfying.  Or maybe there's something I'm failing to see.

http://developer.x-plane.com/

 

"We tossed the mouse wheel idea around, but in the end we concluded that the wheel should be a view/zoom/scroll function, not a data change function – we couldn’t find any example apps that used the wheel to change the contents of the screen."

 

It's a shame they didn't broaden their search a bit more. Using click to activate a knob and then mouse wheel to turn it, is very common with DAW (digital audio workstation) apps that include a virtualized mixer that looks like an analog audio mixer. Not much different from a tubeliner cockpit with a huge panel of knobs and switches to turn.

 

It's incredibly handy for adjusting knobs in the DAW I use (Samplitude Pro X). There is also a function for holding down a keyboard key to slow down the turn rate for fine adjustment. If Ben & Co. ever revisit this issue for a future update, I hope they'll take a look at how it's done in these audio editing and mixing programs.

 

Maybe it shouldn't be the standard UI so it can accommodate all platforms, but I don't see why it couldn't be an option. It would also prevent 3rd party plane developers from implementing their own cockamamy ideas about knob interactions with plugins, which means learning new conventions and switching how you turn knobs when you change planes. That can be very annoying.

It's funny that the popup GPS actually allows you to use the scrollwheel to turn the dials. It's a pity they don't just implement this everywhere else now.

Yes, it would be neat if scroll-wheel instrument/course change, barometer adjustments, etc., were an option.  Default mouse scroll-wheeling intro for some models in X-Plane 10 is very difficult with touchpad centric Macs.  And it's frustrating and a shame - there are great products - most of the Caranado aircraft - that are potentially unflyable.   Unless I happened to get a flawed download, but I suspect not.  All I'm told is that I shouldn't be having the problems I'm having and should be able to disable scroll-wheeling in Plugins to revert to non-scrolling.  Weird, I know, but the unchecked box still leaves scroll-wheel large and small arrows that - still  - jitter around and are next to impossible to manipulate.  I only suggest that other iOS/Mac people proceed with caution, lest this be a larger than "just me" issue.

Personally, I would like to see the zoom feature put entirely on the keyboard.  When scrolling with the mouse wheel (in the aircraft that allow it), it is hard to keep it in the scroll mode and not have it jump to zoom.  That, or enlarge the control areas...  I prefer just putting it on the keyboard as it is not used as much.

 

John

This attitude seems to be inherent in xplane devs outlook though.

I've been following and buying xplane since 7 and I keep hoping it will one day get where it needs to be.

Unfortunately the devs have a history of going against what users keep asking for by saying they thought about it but then dismissing their requests. It seems like when you question the product you are dismissed out of hand. Flight dynamics and torque of small props has long been questioned and the answer was always this is more real, you can tell because it's harder to fly! (Yes I'm being facetious but you know what I mean). It took hard work and evidence by a user to be presented to them before they fixed it.

We have been asking for standard things like scroll wheel support or better atc or weather or ai or airport buildings. Paying customers asking for these things but each new version fails to deliver.

Hearing things like the above just make me dispair of xplane as it is another example of them not listening to what their customers want.

 

How is click and drag better than scrolling. How many times do you need to move the mouse to drag your way up to 37000?!

 

No wonder it is still even after all this time the least used flight sim out of the big three. I want it to get there but I feel until they stop dismissing users long term requests out of hand they won't do.

 

Chris

Totally agree with Chris

 

 

How is click and drag better than scrolling. How many times do you need to move the mouse to drag your way up to 37000?!

 

This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't bother flying jets or IFR in XP, the dials are a real pain to scroll. It's so much easier in FSX/P3D unfortunately. I'm glad some new payware now has a plugin which will do it