I said I would not, but now I did it - the P51

[spilok 1,139]

Gee. I flew the Zero from the southern tip of the Big Island, over all the islands, to Ka'ula, as close to the deck as I dared. The full-screen view was thrilling. On the way back, I ran out of gas and made a deadstick landing in a field on Kauai, couldn't quite make it to Barking Sands. It was a blast. What, if any, "signal" that sends to anyone, I don't know, and I don't really care. You guys have your fun, and I'll have mine.

 

You can still do that with a plane that has a cockpit! Just fly it in spot view. My point is that, as a flight enthusiast, I want the choice to fly it either way. If I and others refuse to buy cockpit-less aircraft, and that results in a complete plane being offered, both YOU and I will be satisfied.

 

Stan

[newthog 0]

Yep, as a glider pilot I can confirm that looking outside is our main concern. We use that "irritating" vario-sound varioemeter that beeps to show you're climbing/able to climb, the yaw string as the PERFECT turn coordinator, and only look inside for radio or GPS stuff, but most PNAs used with gliding software are attached in a position that will make them vivible without having to look inside...

 

Maybe that's why I ended up accepting so well cockpitless aircraft :-)

 

Wow - you guys with your "high tech" equipment! Way back when..wow, 32 years ago of way back when...the 2-33 I flew didn't have the fancy vario-sound...had to make do with the analog gauge. It's also amazing how that piece of yarn did an excellent job as a yaw indicator!

 

I think/hope that Flight is bringing more people into the genre...in kind of the same manner that the sport pilot rating here in the States has made actual flying more affordable and approachable. I'm having fun with it, not too concerned as to "true" or "hardcore" or whatever simmer...

 

but I would REALLY like to see a chopper for Flight!

[jcomm 5,974]

By now I am sure we will get:

 

- A Glider

- An Helicopter

 

 

and almost sure we will get:

 

- a Trike

- a Light Jet (Eclipse???)

- a twin prop/truboprop

 

maybe...:

 

- a lighter than air...

 

 

 

but I would REALLY like to see a chopper for Flight!

[1mikel151 71]

Sounds to me like the days of Flight users sharing their experiences, trying to help others, and having generally positive threads about the program are over, or soon to be. We are just labeled as gamers, MS's target audience, planes don't need cockpits, how fast can I go, etc etc.

Never mind that I have 5 other very complex flight sims installed that I enjoy, thousands invested in equipment - controllers, hardware, to enjoy them with.

I am nothing more than a gamer, and I am a low life as seen by many.

 

I am sorry but it is really sad when even a moderator joins in on it.

I have said it many times in the past, but I will have to rephrase it now - I " used" to be very proud of what this forum had become...

I for one am dang sorry I even started this thread.

I will know better going forward.

 

I guess you are unable to see the big picture and think of the rest us us in this "community" then. I have been an advocate for Flight also and enjoy it very much, BUT this cockpitless ONLY strategy of theirs is really making me change my outlook on Flight. I don't begrudge anyone the enjoyment of their P-51 or Zero, but "if" them buying said aircraft keeps me and other users from having an option for complete aircraft, you better believe they/you will be looked at differently for your purchase decision. I can guarantee that if there were complete versions of the P-51 and the Zero "also", we wouldn't even be having this conversation and more would be enjoying Flight instead..

 

I am really on the fence right now with Flight, Alaska had better deliver something worthwhile!

[jcomm 5,974]

ALASKA will make everybody HAPPY!!!!

 

That's a pure guess, but I bet FLIGHT on it.... ;-)

[RoboRay 126]

I don't begrudge anyone the enjoyment of their P-51 or Zero, but "if" them buying said aircraft keeps me and other users from having an option for complete aircraft, you better believe they/you will be looked at differently for your purchase decision. I can guarantee that if there were complete versions of the P-51 and the Zero "also", we wouldn't even be having this conversation and more would be enjoying Flight instead..

 

You got that right. I'd be happy to pay $10 or $12 for a complete Mustang or Zero with a cockpit. The people who prefer looking at the outside of the plane would still be free to buy the cheaper version if they so want.

 

It just sure would be nice if we were allowed to choose the version we want.

[newthog 0]

but "if" them buying said aircraft keeps me and other users from having an option for complete aircraft, you better believe they/you will be looked at differently for your purchase decision

 

wow - you usually have a constructive, well thought out posts. but unless I'm misunderstanding you - and my apologies if i am - this goes back to the elitist, hardcore, my way or no way simmer that does NOT welcome newer guys "into the fold". I feel it would be a good marketing decision by Microsoft (and I could have sworn I heard references to this by Fr Bill or another beta guy) that there will probably be cockpit AND cockpitless versions of the same aircraft. This would be good - because I truly have no desire to fly a cockpitless aircraft. That being said, I'm glad that other people - some new to the genre, some who've been in a while - find enjoyment with these aircraft. I would rather Microsoft get some positive cash flow out of Flight so they continue to develop, rather than give up on it and the flight sim genre entirely because no one buys DLC...

[spilok 1,139]

I gotta assume that cockpit-less flyers are 15 years old or thereabouts. Real "siimmers" like to fly planes they were meant to fly. In control, and using instruments. Dont' mean to hurt anyone's feeliings, but that's my opinion. We are not "gamers".

 

 

Stan

[1mikel151 71]

wow - you usually have a constructive, well thought out posts. but unless I'm misunderstanding you - and my apologies if i am - this goes back to the elitist, hardcore, my way or no way simmer that does NOT welcome newer guys "into the fold". I feel it would be a good marketing decision by Microsoft (and I could have sworn I heard references to this by Fr Bill or another beta guy) that there will probably be cockpit AND cockpitless versions of the same aircraft. This would be good - because I truly have no desire to fly a cockpitless aircraft. That being said, I'm glad that other people - some new to the genre, some who've been in a while - find enjoyment with these aircraft. I would rather Microsoft get some positive cash flow out of Flight so they continue to develop, rather than give up on it and the flight sim genre entirely because no one buys DLC...

 

You missed the part before that about not begrudging anyone their choice and I don't, i want everyone to enjoy Flight anyway they want. Sad thing is, there is no choice, only aircraft with no cockpit. If that is MS's marketing to provide both, I have yet to really see it that way. I just want the option to enjoy Flight also with shiny new aircraft, but aircraft with no cockpit do not meet that requirement. Also sad is I LIKE the Zero, fly the A2A version quite a bit in FSX, but in no way will I support MS in offering an incomplete aircraft no matter the price, how bored I am with existing content or even if it was free and I had to register to install it (meaning MS could track my "acceptance" of it). I want MS to enjoy cashflow also and produce more DLC, I just would also like some DLC I could use. I have developed aircraft for FSX (my own) and know what is involved which is why I am leary of the way things seem to be heading for Flight.

 

I have done quite a bit of modding/addons for various games and consider myself a gamer and I have seen time after time development houses not having the budget to develop for BOTH PC and Console, they chose to go with the money, which I can understand. Problem is, that is usually the console leaving the other group to find other means of entertainment. I am starting to see the same issue/trend here. If in fact MS didn't have enough foresight to develop DLC content way before the release of flight and if they have to pick and choose based off limited resources AND sales figures, then if enough people buy the aircraft with no cockpit, that is what they will choose to focus on, simple economics unfortunately.

 

Like I said earlier, if there was a choice, this wouldn't be an issue

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

Everybody has an opinion. The self-proclaimed "real" or "true" simmers are just pretend pilots, like the rest of us "fake" simmers. They even make this more of a game than us since they get heavily into the fantasy, role-playing of being pilots, whereas most of us "fake" simmers are just trying to have fun.

 

Really, the only difference between the self-proclaimed "true" simmers and us "fake" simmers is that the former belittle and disparage anybody who does not share their form of flying. We will rarely if ever see helo pilots, bush pilots, soarers, scenery viewers, etc, belittle other types of users of FS, but the "true" simmers constantly make themselves out to be better than anybody else.

 

What is amusing, ironic, and very revealing is that real professional pilots do not disparage other types of flight or their pilots. In fact, we all see how they often practice more leisurely recreational flying in their spare time, either in sailplanes, ultralights, or old fabric biplanes. They even often fly RC models! Talk about not having a cockpit.

 

What has always torn this community apart is not that Microsoft releases new versions of flight games that don't satisfy "true" simmers, but that the latter are intolerant towards anybody else and don't hesitate to make their view loudly known.

 

So what if there are airplanes in Flight without a cockpit? MGS has never said that the majority of the aircraft would be that way. On the contrary, they have clearly stated that there will be simple and deluxe aircraft, that is, without and with cockpits. At present, at the very start, when content is so limited that it is foolish to come to conclusions, the majority of the airplanes have a cockpit.. So, this is not an issue, just another pretext for the "true" simmers to show their discontent, their anger.

 

We all have a choice: buy the DLC or not, use Flight or not. But, please, this is the Flight forum; if you prefer XPlane, FS X, FS 9, or any other "true" sim, then that forum is clearly where you will be happiest. Don't rain on us, won't you?

 

Best regards.

Luis

[RoboRay 126]

wow - you usually have a constructive, well thought out posts. but unless I'm misunderstanding you - and my apologies if i am - this goes back to the elitist, hardcore, my way or no way simmer that does NOT welcome newer guys "into the fold". I feel it would be a good marketing decision by Microsoft (and I could have sworn I heard references to this by Fr Bill or another beta guy) that there will probably be cockpit AND cockpitless versions of the same aircraft.

 

I think you are misunderstanding him. I read that as he would like all planes to be offered in both versions, and let the customers choose which version they want to buy.

[vonBobo 0]

What is amusing, ironic, and very revealing is that real professional pilots do not disparage other types of flight or their pilots. In fact, we all see how they often practice more leisurely recreational flying in their spare time, either in sailplanes, ultralights, or old fabric biplanes. They even often fly RC models! Talk about not having a cockpit.

thats not true at all. while pilots belong in one fraternity, there are still divisions within- fighter pilots make fun of bomber pilots, co-pilots are not captains, no one wants to fly plastic dog crap out of china, the blue angels act like they invented man himself just so he could learn to fly, and everyone thinks heli pilots have a screw loose. All pilots are fiercely loyal to their particular job or plane. the profession itself is somewhat elitist, similar to doctors in a way, and certainly that elitism exists within itself as well.

 

back to the topic- wasnt it josh who started the whole "hard core simmer" rhetoric? His team failed to seduce that crowd, and instead of being a man and owning his mistakes, he took the corporate route and blamed the customers themselves by labelling them, and in turn also defined the division within the sim crowd, and solidifying the resolve of the supporters... brilliant.

[jcomm 5,974]

Well Stan, I'm 48, been using flightsims since 1989 (started before but didn't have a computer...) and have my pilot license since 1980 :-) and not only did I enjoy the p51 but I will consider the Zero depending on ALASKA's price... Ah, and if that can sum up to my "hardcoriness" :-) I consider PMDG planes toys compared to Aerowinx and have allways preferred using PS1, and MSFS 9 and X or even FG just for display when I needed some good visuals... I also own ELITE v8.3, and BTW my preferred flightsim is now, from the hardcore POV, FlightGear, because it has the most complete physics model available that I know, provided one knows how to feed it :)

 

All this being said, of course I will want more detailled aircraft in FLIGHT, and I actually look forward for at least a new one comming with ALASKA, but I really enjoy using the p51, and already felt the need for the Zero...

 

I gotta assume that cockpit-less flyers are 15 years old or thereabouts. Real "siimmers" like to fly planes they were meant to fly. In control, and using instruments. Dont' mean to hurt anyone's feeliings, but that's my opinion. We are not "gamers".

 

 

Stan

[Guest]

I gotta assume that cockpit-less flyers are 15 years old or thereabouts. Real "siimmers" like to fly planes they were meant to fly. In control, and using instruments. Dont' mean to hurt anyone's feeliings, but that's my opinion. We are not "gamers".

 

 

Stan

 

I am really beginning to HATE those simmers vs gamers posts. Which are always posted by people who think they are simmers. Who gives a ###### if you are a simmer or a gamer. As if simmers are better people? Get a life. Really. How annyoing. How the hell do you dare to call everyone who does NOT think like you a 15 year old?

 

You didn't hurt my feelings btw (and let me make it clear I will NEVER buy a plane without a cockpit so in theory I am with you!) but utterly useless elitist forum polluting posts like this are annoying the hell out of me. And btw your post should have ended with 'I am not a gamer' and certainly not 'we', after all it is YOUR opinion and boy, do I wish it was your opinion only. I would think posts like these were only made by 15 years or thereabouts but apparently I am wrong... Geez...

 

Now, where is my coffee...

[newthog 0]

Like I said earlier, if there was a choice, this wouldn't be an issue

I think you are misunderstanding him

 

Thanks to both of you - I find that I did misunderstand Mike - my apologies.

 

I do hope that the same planes are offered WITH a cockpit, also - or a "cockpit upgrade". To me, that would seem a better indicator of the market of cockpit vs non...

 

Another idle thought...and actually a question for those that can design aircraft...if they've put the effort into modeling the aircraft and the flight dynamics, how much more effort is required to make a cockpit for that same aircraft? Does it take as much time as the aircraft, 1/4th the time, etc?