A US Senate panel just passed a bill to bar airlines from complying with the new EU tax law on carbon emissions. If passed by the full Senate and House, and signed by the President, Tourism to Europe is going to take a big hit, if the EU follows through with their threat to bar airlines that don't pay the tax!!! Looks like they're playing Chicken with the World , with China, India, Russia and now the US, it doesn't appear the World is going to be the ones who blink first.!

 

http://in.reuters.co...E86U00320120731

Isolationism doesn't work....Just ask the former USSR about that one.

Who said the aviation business was just about flying? ^_^

So how will this work exactly? American based airlines aren't allowed fly to Europe anymore because they wont pay, so we have to just what, pick up the slack? Or are we in fact barred from the flying to the US because we pay our taxes to the EU??? So TA traffic just stops???? I guess that's one way to tackle emissions...

 

Rónán.

Am I the only one that finds it odd that the US/Chinese/Russian governments are ordering their airlines to break the law?

governments are ordering their airlines to break the law?

 

Aha... so "Europe" sets "the law"...

Let's just say the rest of the world doesn't agree. Inforcing a policy on others isn't diplomacy. Europe is 11% of the worlds population so not big enough to enforce this on others.

But are we allowed enforce it in our own airspace though? I mean, I'm against the whole carbon tax rule thingy in general, but when in Rome do as the Romans do. Our land, our rules, your land, your rules. They're not trying to charge for flights that take place outside of the EU, or are they?

 

Ró.

"It (the bill) makes it clear that the place for dealing with this whole issue is an international organization that is already set up," referring to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), she said. (Senator Barbara Boxer)

 

Hear hear.

 

Sounds to me operations conducted inside the EU... so if U.S. are forbidden to comply with the EU tax (by the Transportation Sec.) then the EU has to decide whether or not to allow U.S. operators in their airspace.

But are we allowed enforce it in our own airspace though? I mean, I'm against the whole carbon tax rule thingy in general, but when in Rome do as the Romans do. Our land, our rules, your land, your rules. They're not trying to charge for flights that take place outside of the EU, or are they?

 

Ró.

 

From what I understand it is flights in and out of Europe and domestic flights in Europe. The USA would prefer to spend that tax on something like job creation in the USA for example instead of giving Carbon Tax to the EU as this would add up to billions of dollars over the years, and lead to a possible trade war.

But what would the difference between this tax and the likes of the UK's APD? American Airlines pay that at the minute, so I don't personally see the difference between an individual countries tax, and a coherent EU tax to replace them all, but maybe that's just me....

 

Ró.

The USA would prefer to spend that tax on something like job creation in the USA for example

Of course. And the EU likes to spend the money gained on 'helping the environment'. ^_^ No offence, Matthew.

 

Well, the countermeasures so far include some (future) flying restrictions over Siberian airspace and some cancelled A380 orders from Chinese airlines. So we may assume that no side operates on the sheer noblesse the pure statements try to establish. At times of presidential races, this may even gain some weight.

 

Finding a more political business as the aviation industry is a difficult task. And that's not something being the case since a few years, but decades. And the industry itself won't like any new factor raising ticket prices 'for nothing'. Needless to say that their lobby influence is strong and that some EU based airlines won't appreciate the idea of an EU only tax, hence the global target of that EU approach.

And the industry itself won't like any new factor raising ticket prices 'for nothing'. Needless to say that their lobby influence is strong and that some EU based airlines won't appreciate the idea of an EU only tax, hence the global target of that EU approach.

Agreed, considering aviation is something like what, 2.8% of global CO2 emissions, and we get this tax, yet concrete production and agriculture, which combined account for something in the region of 45% get away with nothing. The only reason Airlines are targeted is due to the image in peoples minds of this jet streaking across the skies with contrails following behind it's engines. If you could physically see the gas that comes out of a Cow's @ss then I know exactly where this tax would be going....

 

Oh well, Brussels Bureaucrats need something to make them look like they're doing something...

 

Ró.

Same here. I doubt that any environmental concerns drive this project, same as I doubt that any 'saved money' will be spend on job creations. That's not how I got to know politics.

 

Your question was a very good one, Rónán. How are they planning to deal with the participants around the globe? Diplomacy often starts with the stressed need to 'talk again' and I'm sure the EU folks stating that the international ICAO solution on the CO2 matter will take too long had something in mind with sticking to their viewpoint.

 

Well, on the cow to airlines comparison. Airlines are more wealthy than cows. :lol:

For generations of aviation rule making, it has been a collaborative effort. Sometimes bumpy, sometimes down right bloody, but in the end, compromises were made and nations generally agreed to rules, codes and policies that all could live with and as history has shown, prosper and grow. The institution that allowed that to happen? The ICAO.

 

The EU has unilaterally created a "law" that did not collaborate or work with the ICAO. Instead, a "law" was created that attempts to regulate national industries outside the borders of the EU. Every country (or nearly every) country outside the EU refuses to pay a "tax" that the EU has no authority outside the EU to promulgate. Imagine the uproar if the US attempted to put a tax on gas consumption by businesses in the US with car fleets in the EU? What arrogance that the EU thinks they can be the sole arbiter of global Eco governance.

 

At a time when aviation is really only just starting to recover from the 2008 economic down turn (and earlier), this additional "tax" is burdensome and is not something that the companies want to add to their fares. The US Government is joining with Russia, China and others to send a larger message - you are exceeding your reach and your loss of tourism and trade will far outweigh any benefit you might have gained with this tax. I suggest that with this effort underway in the US and elsewhere, that the boys and girls in Brussels might want to check the depth of their humility and reconsider the alternatives, like collaborating with the ICAO and getting a grip on the real threats to the environment, as someone pointed out earlier.