and another who rather will wait for steam gauges version

A second release of a 300/350 with steam gauges would certainly appeal to those of us who grew up on steam gauges and have resisted learning the glass cockpit.

 

For me, it's not about taking a luddite attitude to glass - I like it fine and appreciate what it brings to the table. It's the implementation in a typical GA VC that comes up short for me. EIther you get limited functionality that doesn't even offer what I already have with, say Reality XP + Analog (thinking of the Carenado 182T here), or you get good (though still not complete) function from folks like Flight1, but you still have to deal with the fact that the VC implementation just doesn't have the pixels necessary to make it a quality representation unless you resort to popups and zooming around. I hate popups, Jacque.

 

What frustrates me is that an environment which would, IRL, improve my scan and overall situational awareness, more often degrades both in the sim.

 

Obviously others feel differently and I respect that and support vendors who want to keep both camps happy - as previously stated, I love choices! - but I do think it's worth noting that some of us who prefer analog do so not because we're anti-glass , or somehow out of touch with modern aviation (which is why I dislike the term "steam gauges"), but because we've not been satisfied to date with what current sims/equipment have given us to simulate the real-world glass environment.

 

Scott

Well for me it is all about being stuck in a rut. At my age I just plainly refuse to learn modern glass. Heard brilliant reviews of the mustang "glass". Have I bought it. NO I have not neither will I in future. Call me an old fool. I love steam. Plain and simple for me.

Call me an old fool.

 

I don't believe for second your a fool. Unwilling to accept and or learn new concepts. Perhaps? :biggrin: I kinda have looked at the Glass vs Steam like this. You can do everything with glass gauges that you can with Steam. ( VOR NDB Radio nav ) But with Steam gauges, you can't do everything you can do with glass (Waypoints etc). Tuning your Vor's and NDB's may be little different in glass. But it's all there and for those not familiar with those systems, it may have a steeper but gratifying learning curve..

 

The RW in my name stands for Wrong Way. Glass cockpits help me from getting lost as easy as I often do.

But with Steam gauges, you can't do everything you can do with glass (Waypoints etc).

 

Sure you can. With the right support pieces. A good analog with GPS combination like, say, the Legacy with RXP 430 and 530 gives me both - and yes, I still like doing IFR flights with traditional NDB, VOR and ILS, but I also enjoy doing WAAS approaches, and with most of my planes I can do both. Having said that however...

 

What a true glass cockpit brings to the table IRL is much more than that. It's the well organized presentation of all of those pieces (and more) into an optimized format which allows a pilot to see, assimilate and manipulate more information with less effort which makes glass really shine - but that's exactly where it falls down in every simulated GA implementation I've seen so far. Making glass work depends on a combination of size, resolution, function and direct tactile interface that are all missing to some degree in sim glass VCs.

 

Not that I don't enjoy a good analog plane for its own sake, of course. Bringing things back to Milviz (this IS the Milviz forum after all), a plane like their B55 is great in large part because it gives you a classic B55 panel, in combination with decent updates to that panel - updates of the type you'd really find out there in the real world in a B55 Baron flying today. Put in a G1000 setup and it would be not only atypical, but also a different plane. Technically better, but losing all of its character. I wouldn't fly it.

 

Scott

Our whole selling point is that it's as real as we can make it.

Our whole selling point is that it's as real as we can make it.

A good point. If you were to walk into your local Hawker dealer today and placed an order for a 350ie, 350i, 200 or a 90. Your only avionics option is the Proline 21 if I'm not mistaken? And its gorgeous

 

http://www.hawkerbee...|bkingairc90gtx

 

A good analog with GPS combination like, say, the Legacy with RXP 430 and 530

Please , Im not nitpicking but that's not a "True" steam cockpit. Is it? Or does having an HSI, ATI and analogue engine gauges constitute a galss cockpit. Oh heck not important!

Please , Im not nitpicking but that's not a "True" steam cockpit. Is it? Or does having an HSI, ATI and analogue engine gauges constitute a galss cockpit. Oh heck not important!

 

Rendi, you've lost me I'm afraid. Those who prefer glass were disappointed about the the Legacy precisely because it was using "Steam" gauges (and I STILL hate that term B) ). It certainly isn't glass, though now that I think about it, the engine gauges actually are. A better example is probably something more like the Milviz Baron that I mentioned later. Definitely a classic cockpit, definitely all classic gauges, definitely not glass, but still capable thanks to some updates. The only point I was driving at was that you don't have to have an all glass cockpit to have things like GPS - even IFR capable GPS.

 

I completely agree with what Milviz is doing here - if you're going to do a current King Air, it should be glass. And I keep an open mind on these things and continue to hope that someone will do a VC that does a good enough job on a glass cockpit that I'll feel like I'm really flying real-world glass with all if its advantages rather than feeling like I'm giving up something in order to fly glass in the sim. Maybe Milviz will be the one - I've certainly become a fan of theirs since the B55 so my expectations are high. But given past experience with glass sim implementations, I'm also pleased to hear that they're considering a later release of a more vintage model with classic analog gauges. Which I expect will also include modern IFR GPS, of course.

 

Scott

TTOCS has a great point on size and resolution.... and that's why I've added a second monitor. I place the "pop up" on the second screen and it's good to go. Carenado Jet Prop is an excellent example, as I can place both the GPS and the G600 (along with ATC and AP on some models) on the second screen and operate/see them great. In the future, I'd like to see support for touch screen monitors.. that could be a very trick set up.

http://www.sportys.com/source/images/jQzoom/11233.jpg

 

This is what we would be doing. It's not exactly steam nor is it all glass... The "perfect hybrid" perhaps?

 

 

http://www.sportys.c...Qzoom/11233.jpg

 

This is what we would be doing. It's not exactly steam nor is it all glass... The "perfect hybrid" perhaps?

Actually, I think that is very typical of a B300/350. I'm thinking that King Air's produced with pure analog instruments ended around 1989 or 1990. From then until the mid-2000's (Proline 21 introduction) they used EFIS flight instruments and analog engine instruments like the picture in your post. Many have been upgraded to include a KLN-90 or GPS 400 system.

Yes your right in thinking that.

This is what we would be doing. It's not exactly steam nor is it all glass... The "perfect hybrid" perhaps?

 

 

As Rendi's earlier post correctly pointed out, "Steam" and "Glass" are pretty imprecise terms. This is certainly a hybrid, but one I still think of as predominantly analog and is a combination that still works well in a VC without a lot of need for "popping".

 

Works for me!

 

Scott

http://www.sportys.c...Qzoom/11233.jpg

 

This is what we would be doing. It's not exactly steam nor is it all glass... The "perfect hybrid" perhaps?

 

Now we talking my age "bracket".. That just speaks to me...! If you ever bring this one out, I will be in seven heaven.

My God. Was that a B36 Engineers panel? <Just kidding>

 

Yea.. Pro 21 > all the screws needed to hold that together.