Plane hits car on approach

[Great Ozzie 101]

We found the culprit... The SUV was too big. The driver should have purchased a Mini Cooper and this disaster could have been averted. Shame on that driver.

 

C172 wouldn't need new landing gear and engine...

 

Just a little buffing on the roof of the Cooper (remove the tire mark)...

 

And everything would be right as rain.

[Cessnaflyer 56]

A combination of dropping airspeed and an increasing sink rate will give the aircraft a higher angle of attack without even moving the nose an inch that could cause a stall.

 

I loved having students maintain a very low pitch up attitude while doing stalls and watching their reaction when the aircraft stalled when they thought they were keeping the aircraft straight and level. All of their reactions, even when they knew an aircraft can stall at any speed or attitude relative to the ground, was surprise. They were never prepared for the the stall and their recovery actions were delayed by quite a bit. This is something that could have happened when the pilot did not notice his lack of airspeed and dropped it on the car.

[Great Ozzie 101]

A combination of dropping airspeed and an increasing sink rate will give the aircraft a higher angle of attack without even moving the nose an inch that could cause a stall.

 

I hate commenting on nearly every post (no I don't... not really...)

 

That's a great point btw.

 

How close he was to the stall since he "appears" slow and the bottom falling out (doesn't slide very far afterward)... am trying to figure out that and how ground effect was involved.

 

He really did tho... just do a kerplunk onto that volvo.

[Manny 1,293]

The driver admits he saw the plane being low..and yet he decided to proceed? Yeah..I'll say it again. The driver is an idiot.. Yeah.."WOW..He's a little low...but thats not gonna make me stop or slow down even..... "

 

Yes.. the student pilot was not the greatest pilot..laa dee daa what are the odds of that?.... The driver of the car notices the pilot was very low...and yet willfully doesn't even bother slowing down a bit?

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...-177129811.html

 

The Laudos are aviation enthusiasts, and they visit the airport a lot. The road to get there is adjacent to the runway.

 

"I knew it was a plane immediately, because when I looked to the left, I saw him and he couldn't have been more than 10 feet away," Frank said. "I thought, 'Wow, he's a little low.'"

[Great Ozzie 101]

The driver admits he saw the plane being low..and yet he decided to proceed?

 

Ok Manny....

 

Let's assume a few things already thrown out here.

 

Car traveling roughly 30 mph. So about 44 ft / sec.

 

Reaction time from seeing (acknowledging a hazard) to first movement... at the "best"... 3/4 sec. So roughly 30feet traveled. More like a couple secs could have gone by. Haven't even got into stopping distance.

 

If you have ever been in a traffic accident.... you would know several thoughts can flash thru your mind before reacting / before your foot even begins to move toward the brake.

 

After his "I thought, 'Wow, he's a little low." I doubt he had time for the next thought which would be along the lines of, "Oh Shoot!"

 

Just some things to think about.

[lateagain 45]

I cannot believe this discussion.

 

It's clearly an airport.

 

The driver knew where he was going, knew it was an airport and had visited before.

 

There's a STOP SIGN on the road.

 

The driver did not stop.

 

If the driver had stopped he would have seen the aircraft.

 

To proceed as he/she did is as wreckless as jumping a railroad crossing or racing a train ....which apparently kills hundreds of folk in the States each year.

 

Geoff

[Manny 1,293]

Ok Manny....

 

Let's assume a few things already thrown out here.

 

Car traveling roughly 30 mph. So about 44 ft / sec.

 

Reaction time from seeing (acknowledging a hazard) to first movement... at the "best"... 3/4 sec. So roughly 30feet traveled. More like a couple secs could have gone by. Haven't even got into stopping distance.

 

If you have ever been in a traffic accident.... you would know several thoughts can flash thru your mind before reacting / before your foot even begins to move toward the brake.

 

After his "I thought, 'Wow, he's a little low." I doubt he had time for the next thought which would be along the lines of, "Oh Shoot!"

 

Just some things to think about.

 

Why would he not have stopped earlier ..he is obviously familiar with that place? and why would he even go 30 miles an hr on that road and then..if he saw the plane left of him and the plane is obviously going faster than he is in the car,.,... he should and could have waited... Watching that video..he didn't even pause.... not anymore than he paused at the stop sign earlier. This bloke just ran a red light or rail crossing like Geof says.

 

Yesterday I was on the fence ....kind of. I thought the driver was careless in not looking out the window.. But today after reading his confession, It is clear he was blatantly willful.

 

If the driver had stopped he would have seen the aircraft.

 

Geof, the bloke saw the aircraft left of him and he noticed it was way too low...and yet didn't even hesitate.... just rammed through.. He probably assumed the plane could maneuver around his car since he was in hurry for his hamburger.

[Great Ozzie 101]

There's a STOP SIGN on the road.

 

It looked washed out... is there something more recent than 2007 to show differently?

 

2nd... I could not find anything in the Texas Driver's Handbook about a stop sign being painted on a road as a legitimate "device signal".

 

3rd... Stop signs on private property have no enforce-ability here in Indiana and I suspect same for Texas.

 

4th... it is an airport... people probably not used to seeing aircraft about to land on the road.

 

I agree... would be a good idea to stop and look... could have possibly saved him some heartache. But who knows with the plane being as low as it was if he would have seen it.

 

So Manny you saying if he had stopped and seen "nothing", then proceeded normally... this would be totally on the pilot?

 

Geof, the bloke saw the aircraft left of him and he noticed it was way too low...and yet didn't even hesitate.... just rammed through.. He probably assumed the plane could maneuver around his car since he was in hurry for his hamburger.

 

Manny.... honestly... that is just nonsense. If he noticed him just a few yards away the accident was a done deal. It's that simple.

[lateagain 45]

He knew it was an airfield because he states he's been there before AND that he knew the protocol.

 

He drove across an active runway. Whatever the state of the STOP sign he knew it was an airfield and he knew where he was going. Common Sense would have made most folk stop and look anyway.

 

It's as stupid as jumping a crossing and IMO he's lucky he didn't kill himself and the pilot.

 

The pilots actions are completely irrelevant. From the drivers point of view he should have stopped and checked the approach. He had no way of knowing anything about the approaching aircraft, it's pilots level of skill, whether it had a malfunction etc. etc. etc. SO the only sane course of action in crossing a runway is to wait until it's clear of traffic.

 

The discussion about it being a private road is equally irrelevant. Would he have driven in front of a speeding train on the grounds that he was on a private road and the crossing wasn't marked properly? ....er ...well looking at the video again ....maybe.....

 

Geoff

[Manny 1,293]

Well put Geoff...

 

What if the aircraft had lost its engine instead and he was just mushing his way to land there? All this discussion about the pilots fault etc is really moot. That aircraft has the right of way all over that place including all over that road.

[ZachLW 37]

He knew it was an airfield because he states he's been there before AND that he knew the protocol.

 

He drove across an active runway. Whatever the state of the STOP sign he knew it was an airfield and he knew where he was going. Common Sense would have made most folk stop and look anyway.

 

It's as stupid as jumping a crossing and IMO he's lucky he didn't kill himself and the pilot.

 

The pilots actions are completely irrelevant. From the drivers point of view he should have stopped and checked the approach. He had no way of knowing anything about the approaching aircraft, it's pilots level of skill, whether it had a malfunction etc. etc. etc. SO the only sane course of action in crossing a runway is to wait until it's clear of traffic.

 

The discussion about it being a private road is equally irrelevant. Would he have driven in front of a speeding train on the grounds that he was on a private road and the crossing wasn't marked properly? ....er ...well looking at the video again ....maybe.....

 

Geoff

 

What you've completely disregarded is the pilot's willingness to land on the displaced threshold. Discussed ad nauseam in past posts. Or at least that's how this expert accident investigator feels. As far as "the pilot's actions being irrelevant". I honestly think that's an irresponsible attitude in relation to ADM and pilot in command. Things were done in the cockpit (as stated many times in past posts) that set this accident up. The PIC's failure to maintain a safe distance from the ground before being over the numbers is the integral link in this accident's chain. I'll argue that until my fingers bleed. I only draw this conclusion by video and Google Maps/Street View, but I feel it's relatively sound.

 

Well put Geoff...

 

What if the aircraft had lost its engine instead and he was just mushing his way to land there? All this discussion about the pilots fault etc is really moot. That aircraft has the right of way all over that place including all over that road.

 

He had an engine and it was running. We could go through "what ifs" until we're all blue in the face.

 

Guess what the NTSB probable cause will say (I wager)? --Pilot's willingness to continue below glide path and consequent decision not to go around-- I'm sure something along the lines of car traffic being negligent and perhaps non-standard markings will be listed as additional factors. Who knows?! We'll see pretty soon.

 

And arguing "right of way" is the moot point. Pilots can't expect road traffic to adhere to their rules... I'm sure that's why the displaced threshold is there!

[Avantime 81]

I think people forget that the safety of the aircraft is ultimately the responsibility of the pilot-in-command. It is the PIC's responsibility to ensure that the aircraft doesn't get into an unsafe situation (e.g. Low and unstabilised approach) and execute proper judgement in case the flight do become unsafe. (e.g. going around) IMO unsafe flight due to Inexperience is no excuse as the the "Duty of care" threshold/standard for PIC is very high. i.e. If you fly like this you shouldn't be going solo in the first place. Also since this is his home field he should have known (or taught by his instructor) about any potential hazards and obstacles in the local area, such as cars ignoring stop signs.

 

IMO His instructor also shares some responsibility because he released the student without properly ensuring that he knows what is the correct approach profile for his home field & aircraft and teach him proper decision criteria for a go-around. Go-arounds should be practiced in every flight at this stage of training and the student must know how to escape an unsafe situation before he/she goes solo.

[Vargveum 53]

Murphy's law.

 

Student pilot was very low on the approach - bad mistake.

 

Driver of SUV didn't see the plane or neglected to stop - also a bad mistake.

 

Both did something they now wish they didn't and we got this accident.

 

Edit: As for the main responsibility for this I would have to say the pilot.

[HawkDsl 50]

Running a road painted stop sign is the same thing as running a pole stop sign. The top winger could have LANDED on the hill and rolled to airport, and it would STILL be the car's fault.

[Great Ozzie 101]

Running a road painted stop sign is the same thing as running a pole stop sign.

 

And flying a plane in FSX is the same thing as flying a plane in real life.