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Wendall

Plane hits car on approach

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Wow....

 

Painting the letters 'Stop' on a road is not per any traffic rules or regulations in Texas as far as I know, so I don't understand how this airport thought that would be a safe thing to do. I wonder why the road is even there.

 

Nice low and slow approach on that Cessna though, he must have been looking down the runway.


Matthew Kane

 

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http://www.wfaa.com/...-177177461.html

A 172 had a collision with an SUV...well a Volvo...in North Carolina yesterday or today.

Really interesting that the driver "didn't see" the paved letters, but sad that he chose to give up flying...

 

Not sure where you got North Carolina from but that was actually at Northwest Regional Airport in Roanoake, TX near Dallas and not far from DFW.

 

This is actually the same airport that Avsim forum member Manny mentioned in this post http://forum.avsim.n...led-in-a-crash/ where his instructor was killed in a plane crash.

 

Actually this airport has had a string of bad luck in the recent 6 weeks. As quoted by Wikipedia "Between 22 September 2012 and 3 November 2012, 4 separate accidents were linked to the airport, with 3 actually taking place on site. There were a total of 6 fatalities"

 

Shortly after Manny's instructor was killed on Sept 22nd, on Oct 7th a flight that left that airport was bound for Mississippi crashed 25 mile southwest of Terrell, TX killing all aboard.

 

Then on Oct 11th a biplane crashed on takeoff at the airport but fortunately no one was killed in that crash.

 

Then today, Nov 4th, the plane hit the car at the same airport as mentioned above. Fortunately there were no fatalities in the last to crashes.

 

I cant recall there ever being so many accidents in a short time frame with the same airport being involved.


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I was just about to open a topic on this!. I'm from the dallas suburb of flower mound just down the road from this airport. Here is video:

 

 

Just listen to the audio at the end. The people in the car sound like idiots. Shocked, surprised idiots, but idiots none the less. If you google map it, you can see the word "stop" on the road before crossing the north side of runway 17. Use that to compare what happened in the video, and you can see that the car did not stop.

Fyi, according to the article, the land that road is on is private property. The airport has offered money for it so they can improve the safety on that side, but the owner has turned them down. Maybe this will get a deal done


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According to http://www.airnav.com/airport/52F there's a "ROAD 30 FT FM END OF RUNWAY." There's a "2-box VASI on right (4.50 degrees glide path)". The glide path for the other end of the runway is 5.25 degrees.

 

The pilot was awfully low to be on a 4.5 degree glide slope. Now I understand why the last pilot I flew with said "White and white, you're alright; white and red, you're dead" and came in a little high on our local 3 degree glide slope.

 

I'm in Bonham, 63 nm northeast. I checked my records and found I landed at 52F in FSX early last year.

 

Hook

 

PS. There's also a 400' displaced threshold, which should have given a pilot plenty of height above a passing car.


Larry Hookins

 

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In the news coverage it state that the road is privately owned and not by the airport. There's also a recording of the folk from the airfield asking the folk in the SUV why they drove out in front of the aircraft. I have to say I'm amazed at how many "crossing" incidents happen in the States. When I was into rail simulations I read up a lot on US railroad operations and was amazed to find out how many railroad crossing accidents there are over there. We call them "level crossings" in the UK -same level as the track - but nearly ALL level crossings are gated here as we have shorter much faster trains. Even so on my few times driving around in Florida and New England states the crossings are all marked and the US loco horns are renowned world wide for how noisy and long they sound. Still folk drive onto crossings with trains approaching?!?! :huh: Type "Car/Truck hit by train" into You Tube and theres dozens of incidents recorded. :(

 

BTW Hook where I used to fly in the UK we had a public road just outside of the airfield bounday fence very close to the threshold and trees right across the approach. We got used to making steeper than normal approaches but I'd caution against "White on White, you're alright"! Another bit of aviation folklore says "The two most useless things in avaiation are altitude above you and runway behind you" In broad daylight any qualified pilot ought to be able to "picture" his or her approach angle without reference to lights anyway? Landing or taking off the "Runway behind you" wisdom is the relevant part? After all runways tend to have obstacles at BOTH ends? :lol:

 

Seems sad to me that the pilot spent so much time getting towards his licence only to be put off by the stupidity of others? i always used to say that the most dangerous thing about flying is driving to the airfield. B)

 

Geoff


Geoff Brown

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You can't fix stupid, and often times you can't even stop stupid from happening OR from ruining your day. Not talking necessarily talking about the driver.

 

I wonder how many pilots and drivers complained about that road, and they probably used the excuse "well, nothing has ever happened", thus waited until it did.

 

Even IF the owner of the road didn't wish to comply with changes, there are a lot of things the airport could have done.

 

The real problem is you can't fix, or control stupid. It will however, control and fix you - AND you can only mitigate it sometimes!


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Here is a shot from google maps:

https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=northwest+regional+airport+roanoke+tx&hl=en&ll=33.055508,-97.230592&spn=0.0075,0.013797&hq=northwest+regional+airport+roanoke+tx&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.056781,-97.232601&panoid=BtY5BVuYiVRIY4JPO_AIKA&cbp=12,96.77,,0,-1.12

 

Clearly no stop sign or any other signs, just the letters 'Stop' that have been painted on the ground and nothing else, nothing to say their is a runway or anything. Railway Crossings have better markings then that.

 

Most people using that road probably know the runway is there but I bet not everyone.


Matthew Kane

 

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As has been said, the pilot was rediculously low. In fact if you look at the footage it looks to me like the plane actually began a stall on the final few yards, as it started to drop, just have another look...


Howard
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Not sure where you got North Carolina from but that was actually at Northwest Regional Airport in Roanoake, TX near Dallas and not far from DFW.

Oops :blush: my bad, I saw Roanoake and immediately thought North Carolina. My post will be fixed.

 

Just listen to the audio at the end. The people in the car sound like idiots

I was surprised at how explosive the woman on the recording seemed. You obviously hit/got hit by something, it doesn't matter if you saw it or not.


Jackson Dalton

Specs are in my profile

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As a Brit I drive "on the right side of the road" :lol: ....so in effect my view of the oncoming aircraft would have been more difficult (sitting on the opposite side of the car to the oncoming aircraft) as it probably was to the driver of the white car that crosses before the SUV However driving in the direction Matthews link shows the driver would have had NOT ONLY a clear view of any oncoming aircraft but couldn't have failed to notice the airport sign and the vast line of hangers in front of the clearly visible runway..... except he/she (not sure who was actually driving) obviously didn't notice any of that?

 

I have to disagree Howard. The pilot was a trainee and as such his keenness to touch down might have been sooner rather than later? ...but remember the second most useless thing in aviation is "runway behind you"! The first most useless thing is "altitude above you" but that refers to enroute rather than approach. His only error in my book is not having anticipated the stupidty of others. :huh:

 

I rented a house at Cedar Key Florida just west of the runway there a few years ago and the road there actually joins the end of the runway. The signage is the usual "International" stop signs there with a low flying aircraft written warning but even though movements were few whilst I was there good old "common sense" made me stop and look before crossing.

 

I guess my generation grew up with our responsibilities drummed into us whereas the "me" generation seem to think that their needs and wants come first? I NEED to cross the runway should automatically trigger I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY to myself AND everyone else to do so safely? If the driver was local he must have known about the field and a visitor would have seen what we can all see from street view and would surely have been more cautious?

 

I always argued that the most dangerous thing about GA was driving to the airfield! ...and that was a few years ago before the idiots amongst us thought "texting whilst driving" was OK!

 

Geoff


Geoff Brown

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His only error in my book is not having anticipated the stupidty of others.

 

No... he was low... looked as if his aiming point was the first arrow on the displaced threshold. That displaced threshold is there for a reason... it is NOT to be used for landing.

 

Takeoff... yes ok... (useless the runway behind you is where this applies NOT for landing on a displaced threshold) I would use the DT to takeoff after immediate turn onto Rwy 17 (not taxiing up to the threshold bar marking).

 

Now I understand why the last pilot I flew with said "White and white, you're alright; white and red, you're dead" and came in a little high on our local 3 degree glide slope.

 

I had it drilled into my grapefruit (as a student) that there is no excuse not to be able to make the runway once you were (basically) downwind if there was an engine failure. Slightly high was preferable to slightly low (once descending from P.A.) ... this guy was (too) low and could be cited for it. Bet the guy has already been called by the FAA.

 

As far as signs... it is going to depend on Texas state law. In Indiana.. you can place a stop sign on private property (e.g. a shopping mall) but it is not enforceable. Could be in Texas they do not permit use of a stop sign on private property.

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As has been said, the pilot was rediculously low. In fact if you look at the footage it looks to me like the plane actually began a stall on the final few yards, as it started to drop, just have another look...

 

Yes, it does look like he stalled it right onto the SUV. Probably saw the car at the last second and tried to pull up. Once again, just like the Colgan and Air France crashes showed, student pilots need to be taught by their CFIs to make adding power when in need of altitude the first instinct. Instinctively pulling back on the stick when in need of altitude often leads to crashes.

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Yes, it does look like he stalled it right onto the SUV. Probably saw the car at the last second and tried to pull up. Once again, just like the Colgan and Air France crashes showed, student pilots need to be taught by their CFIs to make adding power when in need of altitude the first instinct. Instinctively pulling back on the stick when in need of altitude often leads to crashes.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I hate to argue with you again but it seems to me that adding power for a go-around without changing pitch first will result in the plane ...continuing on its trajectory and hitting the ground (especially if it's a large one). I thought this was drilled into every airline pilot (which I am not) but apparently I am wrong on this account...

 

Now if approach speed is at least 1,3 x stall speed, you really need to pull hard in order to stall that plane (unless you were already in the flare, of course).

 

Bruno

 

PS : Eh, eh, here we are again in a pitch first vs power fist debate...

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Mm....my local airport has a road running right behind the runway, and even though there isn't a sign that explicitly states that there are low flying aircraft (there used to be, I don't know what happened to it), I always check traffic before crossing the runway. I've had a few near-misses with planes landing on runway 19. Although I almost had the left wing of an old vintage warplane crash right through my windshield once when said aircraft did a low fly-by over runway 1 and invariably over the road.


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