The road in question IS a private road, along with the airport. This all happened on private property. It'll all be hashed out between the owners, pilot, and car drivers insurance. No laws were broken. It'll all be "settled" after some suits have been filed.

Here's a clue..... what should a driver do at a stop sign?

 

Lets make it easy for the Air Commodores, CFI's, Arm Chair Aces, bar room lawyers .....oh and btw this is INTERNATIONALLY recognised as the case

 

What should ANY driver of ANY VEHICLE do at a stop sign?

 

It's a toughie I know so I'll give you some more help ...the answer only has 4 letters......

 

Nah I'm being ridiculously unfair here aren't I ...OK four letters beginning with S?

Um....sh....maybe I shouldn't go there. :mellow:

Here's a clue..... what should a driver do at a stop sign?

Here's a clue right back at you... Where's a plane supposed to land? Into a car side window at 5 feet AGL over a publicly accessible road, or on a runway 400+ feet away? Hint: It starts with r and ends with unway... Next clue: What are the responsibilities for a PIC? You seem to be stuck looking at this from one perspective, missing the bigger picture. There are multiple persons to blame, and not all in equal parts. Just to clarify, I do not wish to absolve the SUV driver of any blame, just take a look at the big picture.....

There isn't one.

 

OOps meant there was a stop sign painted on the road itself not a actual posted stop sign so still you would expect the person too stop still

Like another poster said earlier, what if instead of an SUV, it was a cow standing in the middle of the road? Or what if it clipped that white picket fence instead? Who's fault would it be? The cows owner for not securing it? The owner of the airport for not making a cutaway at the fence in case a rookie pilot decided to crop dust the approach at 10 ft AGL?

 

The problem here is the pilot obviously was too low during the approach and happened to hit a vehicle traveling down the road. Simple as that.

Gather that the stop sign wriiten on the road didnt mean anything to the driver

Gather that the stop sign wriiten on the road didnt mean anything to the driver

 

Gather that the red over red VASI lights and displaced threshold didn't mean anything to the pilot

depends if there were vasi light being a private strip, still doesnt excuse the driver going thru the stop sign, where i come from stop means stop, thats whys its there for planes landing short. Maybe they should erect larger posted stop signs but then again people still wouldnt stop

I don't think being high or low has anything to do with it-more two drivers that were unaware. Pilot should have seen the car and gone around, car driver should have looked before crossing a runway whether a stop sign was there or not. I've seen that kind of unaware driving constantly since moving to Southern California :-)

Maybe they should erect larger posted stop signs but then again people still wouldnt stop

 

Keep going. Really, keep going because you're getting warmer...

 

 

The conversation has been entertaining, for the most part. But let me ask the various participants what there thoughts are about a slightly different scenario. I'm 6'2". Not so healthy that I'll be out jogging any time soon, but say that I was out for a run around the outside of the airport. Have my iPad mini and a nice set of headphones to listen to some tunes. Make a left onto a private road that runs perpendicular to the runway. Tired, sweaty, muscles ache, but the music makes me feel better, especially when it's really cranked up. Then the Cessna comes along...

 

What are you going to say in the aftermath? Especially with a camera rolling.

I don't think being high or low has anything to do with it-more two drivers that were unaware. Pilot should have seen the car and gone around, car driver should have looked before crossing a runway whether a stop sign was there or not. I've seen that kind of unaware driving constantly since moving to Southern California :-)

 

If the road cuts through the runway, yes, I can see the driver being at fault. Fact of the matter is the road does not cut through or intersects the runway at all. As a matter of fact, the runway begins 435' from the road. As for the stop sign, did you guys even see it? It's almost at the intersection of the road with the main road, faded and barely visible. Who's to say the driver did come to a stop and the plane was coming in so low that the driver did not see it and proceeded to drive down the road?

Like driving on a two lane road going 60 mph with the cars passing each other a few feet apart the responsibility rests on both. You may have absolute confidence in your ability to stay in your lane but if the person who passes you 2 feet away does not you are out of luck. IMHO-both gave it up in this situation. The pilot should have been scanning and mentally prepared for a go around due to many things that can go wrong-too high-too low-bad approach, bad wind correction, car on runway, deer on runway, coyote about to run on runway,,bird flock suddenly taking off at threshold like they do at Cleveland Burke lakefront. Instead it appears he was mentally committed no matter what and taken completely by surprise.

 

Car should have been looking around before crossing..whether a runway or a street intersection-I am sure most would.

 

I've flown and driven to Beaver Island airport in Michigan-similar road condition. No way I would fly in without anticipating there might be a car there. In a similar fashion-road des not have stop sign but states" caution low flying aircraft" . Get's my attention...As a car driver ( in this case passenger when I did it)

Like driving on a two lane road going 60 mph with the cars passing each other a few feet apart the responsibility rests on both. You may have absolute confidence in your ability to stay in your lane but if the person who passes you 2 feet away does not you are out of luck. IMHO-both gave it up in this situation. The pilot should have been scanning and mentally prepared for a go around due to many things that can go wrong-too high-too low-bad approach, bad wind correction, car on runway, deer on runway, coyote about to run on runway,,bird flock suddenly taking off at threshold like they do at Cleveland Burke lakefront. Instead it appears he was mentally committed no matter what and taken completely by surprise.

 

Car should have been looking around before crossing..whether a runway or a street intersection-I am sure most would.

 

I've flown and driven to Beaver Island airport in Michigan-similar road condition. No way I would fly in without anticipating there might be a car there. In a similar fashion-road des not have stop sign but states" caution low flying aircraft" . Get's my attention...As a car driver ( in this case passenger when I did it)

 

+! Best post in the whole thread, Geofa.

This thread is so circular...

 

I haven't had time to read through all replies. Has anyone mentioned that a painted 'STOP' on the road is not taught or enforced by almost all DMVs in the conUS?

 

I stand by my original assesment. Both are at fault. The driver should have yielded and the pilot ought to have been aware of his surroundings...being a student is not excuse..he is still at fault.

 

The fact, however, is that bickering over the assignment of fault is pointless. No one was hurt. Both operators should have prevented the accident. Legally, however, I doubt either one can be held liable. If anyone, the airport manager should be held responsible for not assuring operational safety.

 

Like driving on a two lane road going 60 mph with the cars passing each other a few feet apart the responsibility rests on both. You may have absolute confidence in your ability to stay in your lane but if the person who passes you 2 feet away does not you are out of luck. IMHO-both gave it up in this situation. The pilot should have been scanning and mentally prepared for a go around due to many things that can go wrong-too high-too low-bad approach, bad wind correction, car on runway, deer on runway, coyote about to run on runway,,bird flock suddenly taking off at threshold like they do at Cleveland Burke lakefront. Instead it appears he was mentally committed no matter what and taken completely by surprise.

 

Car should have been looking around before crossing..whether a runway or a street intersection-I am sure most would.

 

I've flown and driven to Beaver Island airport in Michigan-similar road condition. No way I would fly in without anticipating there might be a car there. In a similar fashion-road des not have stop sign but states" caution low flying aircraft" . Get's my attention...As a car driver ( in this case passenger when I did it)

 

^this!

This thread is so circular...

 

I haven't had time to read through all replies. Has anyone mentioned that a painted 'STOP' on the road is not taught or enforced by almost all DMVs in the conUS?

 

I stand by my original assesment. Both are at fault. The driver should have yielded and the pilot ought to have been aware of his surroundings...being a student is not excuse..he is still at fault.

 

The fact, however, is that bickering over the assignment of fault is pointless. No one was hurt. Both operators should have prevented the accident. Legally, however, I doubt either one can be held liable. If anyone, the airport manager should be held responsible for not assuring operational safety.

 

 

 

^this!

 

I can only speak for Virginia, but here, the ONLY 3 traffic State Codes one can enforce in private property are DUI, Hit and Run and Reckless Driving. If this would have happened in VA, one could probably argue the point for charging the driver for reckless driving but it would be a long shot. From what we see on the video, it does not look like it would warrant such a charge. In this case, no charges would be made and we would just let insurance companies battle it out among themselves. Heck, here in VA we wouldn't even make an accident report because it occurred in private property! DMV states that ALL accidents on private property are non-reportable, even if someone dies! Odd indeed but that's how it is. Only reportable accidents are those on public roads AND with damages in excess of $1,500 USD.