My impression is that the now most powerful mainstream CPU are the I5 and I7 series and that they have been around for a long time. Also see that they are still very expensive. What is to expect in the future. What better CPU will we see and when will the prices on I5 and I7 drop to budget level ? BTW is I5 sufficient for FSX with high settings and running complex addons ?

How much more powerful is it compared to my current Phenom II X4 965 3.4GHz (OC 3.8 GHz) ?

Keep in mind that the current i5 and i7 models are not the same as the ones first released a few years ago. Intel has been improving the internal architecture constantly. The i5 and i7 monikers are marketing names used to mark the mid and high end models.

How much more powerful is it compared to my current Phenom II X4 965 3.4GHz (OC 3.8 GHz) ?

 

An I5 2500K overclocked to say 4.8GHz, or a 3570K @ 4.6GHz, almost twice as fast

What is to expect in the future.

 

For the next several years I think you can expect most of the development on the Intel side to be directed towards reducing power demands & increasing on board GPU performance. This is what Haswell & Broadwell will be doing, versus ramping up performance to huge new levels. This is being driven by less and less demand for desktop computers that require gaming-level power, and more demand for small mobile devices, tablets and laptops which benefit in terms of better battery performance & heat management. The days of expecting big increases in performance--the stuff that FSX eats up--I think are over for the most part.

An I5 2500K overclocked to say 4.8GHz, or a 3570K @ 4.6GHz, almost twice as fast

 

Not enough to justify the cost. Same question for an I7 ?

 

For the next several years I think you can expect most of the development on the Intel side to be directed towards reducing power demands & increasing on board GPU performance. This is what Haswell & Broadwell will be doing, versus ramping up performance to huge new levels. This is being driven by less and less demand for desktop computers that require gaming-level power, and more demand for small mobile devices, tablets and laptops which benefit in terms of better battery performance & heat management. The days of expecting big increases in performance--the stuff that FSX eats up--I think are over for the most part.

 

So a I7 is going to be the best option for FSX (and XPlane P3D or ? ) ? That leads to the question how much price reduction can we hope for here ?

Not enough to justify the cost. Same question for an I7 ?

 

 

 

So a I7 is going to be the best option for FSX (and XPlane P3D or ? ) ? That leads to the question how much price reduction can we hope for here ?

 

It's maybe 3 or 4 times faster (that's in FSX, even more in heavily threaded apps). If that's not enough for you, then no, it's not enough. The I7 is going to perform pretty much the same as the I5

 

Not enough to justify the cost. Same question for an I7 ?

 

So a I7 is going to be the best option for FSX (and XPlane P3D or ? ) ? That leads to the question how much price reduction can we hope for here ?

 

You aren't going to see i7 models drop in price. One has to think of the i3, i5 and i7 names as brands, not specific CPU models. Intel will keep updating the internal architecture and pushing out new generations. For example, moving from Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge CPU core designs.

 

The way you will get a price reduction is that future i3 series will catch up in performance and/or features to where the i5 models are today, for an example. Likewise for future i5 vs current i7 designs. Meanwhile the i7 will always have the latest features, best performance etc., meaning new i7s will always have a premium price.

 

On the other hand, with an older program like FSX, the i5 series will run the sim just as well as an i7. The additional features in the i7 line, like hyper threading, don't help FSX much.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/intel_desktop_cpu_roadmap_for_q1_2013.html

 

 

This maybe just a rumor... http://www.legitreviews.com/news/14641/

Aren't "we" (CPU manufacturers and engineering) nearly reaching the theoretical (law of speed of light) limit of how fast/powerful CPU's can go?

Aren't "we" (CPU manufacturers and engineering) nearly reaching the theoretical (law of speed of light) limit of how fast/powerful CPU's can go?

 

The speed of light isn't the issue (electrons already move at a large fraction of light speed). It's things like shrinking processor fabrication processes. We're getting down to the same level as electrons in size. There are people working on alternatives like quantum computing to get around this.

What about the Haswell CPU's that are scheduled for Q2 2013? Are they worth waiting for if you wanna build an FSX PC or are they intended for other use, like laptops etc?

What about the Haswell CPU's that are scheduled for Q2 2013? Are they worth waiting for if you wanna build an FSX PC or are they intended for other use, like laptops etc?

 

Intel might not offer socketed CPUs with Haswell... It's just a "wait and see" situation now...

It's maybe 3 or 4 times faster (that's in FSX, even more in heavily threaded apps). If that's not enough for you, then no, it's not enough. The I7 is going to perform pretty much the same as the I5

 

Sorry about this, I had two threads mixed up.

 

"almost twice as fast" is the actual performance gap

 

whether the extra cost is justified or not is subjective

What about the Haswell CPU's that are scheduled for Q2 2013? Are they worth waiting for if you wanna build an FSX PC or are they intended for other use, like laptops etc?

 

I'm waiting for Haswell, but it's as Ben says, a wait n see affair. This being acknowledged, we have reliable reports that Haswell will outperform Ivy Bridge by ~10% clock for clock. The other known issue is that Haswell desktop CPUs will employ more flexibility in overclocking controls--I believe more like you would see in pricey former Extreme series CPUs that would allow you to change multipliers instead of have the CPU overclock be locked to the FSB speed, which brought into play more variables that might impair maximum overclockability. Dazz, Ben, someone who understands this stuff better please chime in. But as I say, for some reason, perhaps marketability primarily, Intel has improved the overclocking configurability in Haswell. Finally, there is some hope, and I think at that point it's hope, that Haswell might more overclockable due to some changes to the physically construction of the CPU compared to Ivy Bridge, which debuted with higher temperatures making over clockers be concerned about this, and prompting users to look for better cooling options. I think this last hope is quite unfounded, so it's wait n see.

 

I'm using 4.5 y/o hardware and when I upgrade I expect to have very meaningful improvements, especially nowadays when as has been discussed, improvements really and truly aren't very dramatic. Just look at Sandy Bridge versus Ivy Bridge. Sure, some potential improvements in IB, but adopters had to consider controlling temps to get the edge over SB users. Going from my Core 2 Quad at 3.71Ghz, if Haswell looks decent this should represent an 80+% increase in total performance, especially when combined w/ 8GB of high end ram, a SATA III SDD & a big GPU upgrade. I know I'll appreciate this upgrade and I'm ok waiting because quite truthfully, FSX runs very well even on this old hardware--I just need to take the reality of this into account and not ask it to do more than it should, and it's still a fabulous activity! And you will find people here, no matter how potent their hardware, can move the bar up, but cannot say unequivocally their hardware will make FSX run *perfectly* in every situation possible. This is just an affirmation of the scalability of FSX, so IMO is a very good thing.

I believe more like you would see in pricey former Extreme series CPUs that would allow you to change multipliers instead of have the CPU overclock be locked to the FSB speed, which brought into play more variables that might impair maximum overclockability.

 

Can you clarify what you mean? Grammatically speaking I don't understand what you are saying. :blush:

 

Intel has improved the overclocking configurability in Haswell. Finally, there is some hope, and I think at that point it's hope, that Haswell might more overclockable due to some changes to the physically construction of the CPU compared to Ivy Bridge, which debuted with higher temperatures making over clockers be concerned about this, and prompting users to look for better cooling options. I think this last hope is quite unfounded, so it's wait n see.

 

I do personally believe that Intel has improved OCing with Haswell. According to inside sources, OCing will be more like SB or even better. The modification of integrated VRM and more parameters should be an indicator of how Haswell will OC.