Can we pilot a real 737 if we can

[nathan2k1 0]

'3. Lots of information about nappies/diapers. '

 

I am glad you found this to be helpful Rob Tehehe.

 

 

'I'd strongly suggest you raise your hand even if there are PPLs aboard.

The average PPL person has no clue about the 737NG's systems, and applying Cessna/Piper-style flying/landing techniques might do more harm than good.

Just a thought.'

 

Dave, yes if the situation came to that as like piggles said, a ppl fighting with a simmer who's in left seat, if it was an airbus i'd probably prefere the right seat, i'm left handed generally but prefere to use a yoke

on the right, and I personally without a PPL at the moment (here is hopeing) would treat the PPL as above me and in command - he or she has flow a real aircraft (albleit even a light aircraft) enough to learn

the principles of flight.

 

I'd agree that if a PPL has never looked into the NGX properly they might not be familiar with the cockpit, location of systems and instruments. I'd expect them to be fully aware though of the

primary instruments to fly the plane which won't be that much different to the ones in the light aircraft, even by using the backup instrument altimiter etc. But in both cases, in an area of the developed world

I would expect the ATC to have procedures in place to get in a 737 training captain or equivalent to guide a ppl or joe public down. Obviously, if your in an area where you'll be lucky if there is a

24 hour tower controller (i don't know if such areas exist?) then perhaps your on your own.

 

Hopefully never such situation will arrise. It's like training people to do first aid basic life support, in the hope that if ever someone has a heart attack / MI and needs CPR they can do whatever they

can to keep them ticking over till an ambulance arrives - it is not something you would want to happen, but at least you have some kind of skills or knowledge just incase it does.

[krylite 0]

I would agree with Kyle and the "optimists". Of course a percentage of dedicated NGX simmers probably could land. It also depends on how and how much the NGX is practiced. With flightaware, one can simulate recent NG flights to the exact flightplans. Use a weather generator such as ActiveSky all the time with FSX.

 

Think about how planes are designed with a dose of common sense. Controls and instruments on heavies are designed to make it >easier< for a human being familar with the NGX controls to fly the plane. The MCP makes it easier on the pilot than a regular Cessna panel. A regular flight would most always have an ILS setup for landing. Let it autoland, or choose to take it off for manual landing at minimums.

 

After the first few minutes of exhilaration and shock at entering the NGX cockpit. An experienced NGX simmer with at least a thousand hours simming airliner flights could probably settle enough to check the status of the plane well enough.

 

There was an article on PC Aviator maybe 8 years ago. The columnist's wife surprised him with a birthday gift for a session in an Airbus simulator for an airline. He gulped and went ahead. His main simming experience was the old PSS A320 for FS2002-4. The airline pilot trainer watched him at all phases then told him on approach (for manual practice opportunity) it was common to fly the approach manually which the guy did and he landed just fine and the pilot said he did well.

[Piggles 17]

I'd strongly suggest you raise your hand even if there are PPLs aboard.

The average PPL person has no clue about the 737NG's systems, and applying Cessna/Piper-style flying/landing techniques might do more harm than good.

Just a thought.

 

The talk down instructor would be well ahead of the game here. With the PPL they have a benchmark, they know what they know and more importantly they also know what the PPL cannot be expected to know. They can use that to give instructions that are easily comprehensible to the PPL. For example if it did end in a hand landing, 'you will need to flare higher than usual' - 'flare at 30ft agl'.. or whatever was appropriate.

[Great Ozzie 101]

In this thread, I keep hearing 'it's nothing like reality/it's just a game/you're dangerous for even thinking this/just dare to say this to a CFI/show some humility/etc, etc'...

 

They can use that to give instructions that are easily comprehensible to the PPL.

 

Piggles... the vololiberista... I think others hit on what we who do have some flight experience are talking about... a "frame of reference".

 

It's not about whether or not you are capable or have the ability or experience in the sim... no actual experience means essentially no frame of reference. Who cares if you know how to operate an FMC... no where all the bits and bobs are... know how to read a nav chart... or plug in some simulated wx...

 

The question is can you manage all the information in a timely manner.

 

Like the Sully... bang! no engines... ok I got to do this... now this... now this... all in a timely manner... and you see at some point he realized "I am not going to make the airport"... he has to come up with a new plan and execute it. There is no pause or do-over. He was able to do what he did based on decades of experience and training... and having the proper mental training / preparation for an emergency.

 

Precisely why a sim can be so good as you can get the do-over, rethink what you did wrong and make the adjustment for the next execution. But there are qualities (mental/thinking processes... physical processes) that you will never get no matter how many hours in the sim.

 

A straight sim pilot... no matter how well versed is starting off on "the back side of the power curver"... and when you realize how something can go from "situation normal" to completely upside-down in a heartbeat, or how quickly you can get yourself in a position you do not want to be in... there is where "humility" and respect for how dangerous and unforgiving flying can be.

 

The PMDG sims can be a wonderful aid / tool for learning systems, procedures etc... but I am not going to bet my life on it having what it takes to enable me to successfully land an airliner.

[BimmerCop 332]

 

 

 

Piggles... the vololiberista... I think others hit on what we who do have some flight experience are talking about... a "frame of reference".

 

It's not about whether or not you are capable or have the ability or experience in the sim... no actual experience means essentially no frame of reference. Who cares if you know how to operate an FMC... no where all the bits and bobs are... know how to read a nav chart... or plug in some simulated wx...

 

The question is can you manage all the information in a timely manner.

 

Like the Sully... bang! no engines... ok I got to do this... now this... now this... all in a timely manner... and you see at some point he realized "I am not going to make the airport"... he has to come up with a new plan and execute it. There is no pause or do-over. He was able to do what he did based on decades of experience and training... and having the proper mental training / preparation for an emergency.

 

Precisely why a sim can be so good as you can get the do-over, rethink what you did wrong and make the adjustment for the next execution. But there are qualities (mental/thinking processes... physical processes) that you will never get no matter how many hours in the sim.

 

A straight sim pilot... no matter how well versed is starting off on "the back side of the power curver"... and when you realize how something can go from "situation normal" to completely upside-down in a heartbeat, or how quickly you can get yourself in a position you do not want to be in... there is where "humility" and respect for how dangerous and unforgiving flying can be.

 

The PMDG sims can be a wonderful aid / tool for learning systems, procedures etc... but I am not going to bet my life on it having what it takes to enable me to successfully land an airliner.

 

FTW

 

/thread

 

- Sent from my rooted, Verizon Samsung Galaxy Nexus LTE smartphone via Tapatalk because haters gonna hate.

 

 

[WestAir 2,530]

A straight sim pilot... no matter how well versed is starting off on "the back side of the power curver"... and when you realize how something can go from "situation normal" to completely upside-down in a heartbeat, or how quickly you can get yourself in a position you do not want to be in... there is where "humility" and respect for how dangerous and unforgiving flying can be.

 

The PMDG sims can be a wonderful aid / tool for learning systems, procedures etc... but I am not going to bet my life on it having what it takes to enable me to successfully land an airliner.

 

Agreed. /Thread.

 

NGX pilots landing an NG is possible - maybe even plausible - but don't gamble against the unforgiving nature of reality.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I think a lot of the people in this thread are making too many assumptions here.

 

The question is can a sim pilot fly a real 737 if the situation arose. Nobody ever said the plane was on fire, someone was having a heart attack, or the wing is slowly coming apart. There are a lot of assumptions of "oh, well the pilots are gone, so the plane must be ready to disintegrate, too." If that were the case, then yeah, I'm pretty sure the plane would end up in pieces.

 

However, without making all of the assumptions, I think anyone who flies the thing in FSX has a fighting chance. Again, provided everything is working normally.

 

If the thread title were "Can we pilot a real 737 if we can, whilst the engines were about to catch fire and the hydraulics failed," then I'd see some of the points here. As has been proven in the GA community countless times, a non-pilot, or even a low time pilot can successfully land an aircraft they have zero experience in. Flying is flying, folks. In most of those cases, the only mishap that occurred is the pilot was rendered unconscious (for whatever reason). Aside from that, there were no other pressing issues.

[BimmerCop 332]

I think a lot of the people in this thread are making too many assumptions here.

 

The question is can a sim pilot fly a real 737 if the situation arose. Nobody ever said the plane was on fire, someone was having a heart attack, or the wing is slowly coming apart. There are a lot of assumptions of "oh, well the pilots are gone, so the plane must be ready to disintegrate, too." If that were the case, then yeah, I'm pretty sure the plane would end up in pieces.

 

However, without making all of the assumptions, I think anyone who flies the thing in FSX has a fighting chance. Again, provided everything is working normally.

 

If the thread title were "Can we pilot a real 737 if we can, whilst the engines were about to catch fire and the hydraulics failed," then I'd see some of the points here. As has been proven in the GA community countless times, a non-pilot, or even a low time pilot can successfully land an aircraft they have zero experience in. Flying is flying, folks. In most of those cases, the only mishap that occurred is the pilot was rendered unconscious (for whatever reason). Aside from that, there were no other pressing issues.

 

If the situation arose? So what situation would qualify other than an emergency? Because I very much doubt a Captain would say to his FO in the middle of the flight "I feel like letting one of the passengers fly and land this plane because I'm trying to win a popularity contest."...

 

It's obvious that any discussion about a John Doe landing a B737-800NG with some flight simulator game experience is going to be over an emergency situation.

 

As a matter of fact, the topic itself is an assumption.

 

- Sent from my rooted, Verizon Samsung Galaxy Nexus LTE smartphone via Tapatalk because haters gonna hate.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

If the situation arose? So what situation would qualify other than an emergency? Because I very much doubt a Captain would say to his FO in the middle of the flight "I feel like letting one of the passengers fly and land this plane because I'm trying to win a popularity contest."...

 

It's obvious that any discussion about a John Doe landing a B737-800NG with some flight simulator game experience is going to be over an emergency situation.

 

Again: assumption.

 

It could very well be as simple at both got nailed with dysentery because they both went out for 'berto's burritos on the layover last night in PHX. Now they're both incapacitated because their bowels are coming unglued. Nothing's wrong with the plane though.

 

...ah! No wait. Since the world is run by the limited mind frame of the forum participants here, clearly, both of them having dysentery means that the plane has a bomb on board, and snakes, and leaky hydraulics, and the autopilot just failed.

 

Don't assume!

 

Granted, this was only one of the crew members, but some odd stuff happens:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/17/pilot-gets-stuck-in-bathroom-as-plane-nears-landing-at-laguardia/

[Piggles 17]

If the situation arose? So what situation would qualify other than an emergency? Because I very much doubt a Captain would say to his FO in the middle of the flight "I feel like letting one of the passengers fly and land this plane because I'm trying to win a popularity contest."...

 

It's obvious that any discussion about a John Doe landing a B737-800NG with some flight simulator game experience is going to be over an emergency situation.

 

As a matter of fact, the topic itself is an assumption.

 

- Sent from my rooted, Verizon Samsung Galaxy Nexus LTE smartphone via Tapatalk because haters gonna hate.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

It is an emergency situation, it would be nothing like a birthday experience sim session, which I'm sure many of us have done and landed an airliner.

 

Here we have people saying the aircraft is already set-up for ILS approach..... ...... punch a couple of buttons all will end find - no real world pilot would be expecting the flight to continue as normal in this circumstance, at the very least one would expect diversion to a military base in a low population area.

 

Also don't forget to wave to the F16s too, because for sure they will be up there with you considering past events. I hope ngx includes practice of intercept procedures...

 

I think the only wrong assumptions being made in this thread are coming from those that think flying an aircraft for the first time in your life in a stressful life and death situation would somehow be much easier than it ever could be in reality.

[EGLL77W 1,508]

I would grease that bad boy - like a baws. Yeah.

[krylite 0]

Some 737 simulator videos: even though the pilot is kind of goofing around manually and rushing it for fun. the NGX compares pretty well.

 

 

I know of a friend who was a flight attendant and got up to her ppl (just 172 type). She said she had an opportunity to try a 727 simulator of her airline and did a circuit and landed just fine.

 

The NGX can simulate a bunch of situations, flight path deviations, holdings, aborted landings etc. The NG isn't some light frame GA craft with less horsepower than many cars;

[Vargveum 53]

I think the initial question from the OP was simply: "Can we pilot a real 737 if we can pilot the NGX 737 cold and dark to cold and dark perfectly ?"

 

Now, my answer to that would be (not claiming to know the right answers, but my point of view):

 

If you were a realworld 737 pilot: YES (of course)

 

If you were a realworld pilot in another type of commercial jet: PROBABLY

 

If you were a realworld PPL with considerable realworld flying experience and thorough knowledge of the NG (including a lot of time in the NGX): PLAUSIBLE, BUT A HANDFULL

 

If you had no realworld experience, but had extensive knowledge of the NG from the manuals and by flying the NGX: I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT. GOOD LUCK!

[pete_auau 1,168]

Again: assumption.

 

It could very well be as simple at both got nailed with dysentery because they both went out for 'berto's burritos on the layover last night in PHX. Now they're both incapacitated because their bowels are coming unglued. Nothing's wrong with the plane though.

 

...ah! No wait. Since the world is run by the limited mind frame of the forum participants here, clearly, both of them having dysentery means that the plane has a bomb on board, and snakes, and leaky hydraulics, and the autopilot just failed.

 

Don't assume!

 

Granted, this was only one of the crew members, but some odd stuff happens:

http://newyork.cbslo...g-at-laguardia/

 

Thats why pilots dont eat the same food as one another :lol:

[Vargveum 53]

This topic should become a special on the Mythbusters show. Me thinks B)