Can we pilot a real 737 if we can

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I occasionally start from cold and dark, or shutdown to it, but once you've done it a couple of times the novelty wears off. I don't get any satisfaction from reading a checklist to myself. However, I would never want to load a sim with the engines running and a good engine start simulation is one of the things which separates an excellent addon from a merely good one.

 

So true.

 

When I flew a basement-sim 737 in Worldflight back in 2009, I flew with 4 or 5 other guys. We made an agreement to leave it on ground power as if it were a through flight, but it was always interesting to run the checklist and note how the last guys left something out of place. I'd say it approximated what you'd find out on the line.

 

Cold and dark - YAY SIMISMS!

 

Cessna, yes

Tubliners, no (unless it sat there overnight)

[kevinh 409]

5.Hey I see the IRS'S. don't need them but i can turn them to align or nav because it will align in both. Even ATT just to get basic info.

6. hmm the FMS. YES IT'S A BOEING!! should be easy. I can fumble around and get to the pages i need.

7.ooo, its prompting to load a position on the nav page. I'll select the GPS one. Dont need it to fly though.

Don't need them? Without an aligned IRS you wouldn't stand a chance to fly the 737. But aligning them is no biggie for our hypothetical NGX expert.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Don't need them? Without an aligned IRS you wouldn't stand a chance to fly the 737. But aligning them is no biggie for our hypothetical NGX expert.

 

Couldn't you just ATT them and fly /A using raw data off the radios?

 

...or are we still assuming this is a random rookie in the back doing the flying?

[Vargveum 53]

I don't understand the reverence on this forum, and other sim forums, for cold and dark. If you accept that button pushing is possible in flight, why on earth does powering up and powering down the aircraft (by pushing buttons) make it much more difficult?

 

Oh boy, forget starting up then. I said cold and dark because it also involves taxiing around and taking off for instance.. then comes the landing. And yes, I know that the 737 can autoland.......

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I said cold and dark because it also involves taxiing around and taking off for instance

 

So would finding the aircraft in a normal state (or in simmer parlance: PMDG Short or PMDG Long)...

 

All he was saying is that it's no harder to go from completely off to flying than it is to go from partially powered. It just takes longer. It's not harder in the least.

[kevinh 409]

If as some posters have insisted it is all entirely theoretical, so what they are really saying is 'could I fly a CAT D sim' based on my ngx experience, sure you could, go book an hour in one and enjoy it! (It shouldn't cost much more in the UK than hiring a light aircraft for an hour).

Hypothetical, not theoretical. There is a difference.

 

There's no such thing as a "CAT D" sim, btw. I think you mean Level D. Hiring one for an hour will cost you much more than hiring a light aircraft, even in the UK.

 

Couldn't you just ATT them and fly /A using raw data off the radios?

 

...or are we still assuming this is a random rookie in the back doing the flying?

You could, but why not have them work for you. The NGX pilot let loose in a real 737 will be very familiar with IRS alignment. Flying a route without the FMS to help would make the OP's challenge unecessarily harder.

[Vargveum 53]

All he was saying is that it's no harder to go from completely off to flying than it is to go from partially powered. It just takes longer. It's not harder in the least.

 

No? Really? Thanks

 

Like I said, it was a manner of speaking.

[vololiberista 205]

If one were to start from cold and dark then you should try the VC10. That has 94 pre-flight checks, 39 before start checks, 25 start checks, 15 taxi checks and 10 before TO checks

[kevinh 409]

If one were to start from cold and dark then you should try the VC10. That has 94 pre-flight checks, 39 before start checks, 25 start checks, 15 taxi checks and 10 before TO checks

And yet in my experience, of a VC10 full flight simulator, it isn't necessary to go through all 183 checks to actually get it powered up and flying. I've never seen any VC10 checklists, but that didn't stop me getting the simulator started and flying. Checks are there to ensure everything is correctly set for the next phase of flight or after the completion of a phase. If you don't read the checklist the aircraft will still fly, assuming you haven't forgotten something.

 

Having said that the VC10 is a very complex three crew aircraft, and there is no FSX sim of equivalent fidelity to the NGX to practice on.

[G550flyer 1,047]

Don't need them? Without an aligned IRS you wouldn't stand a chance to fly the 737. But aligning them is no biggie for our hypothetical NGX expert.

lol, that's what the standby instruments are for lol. My yawdamp and flight directors would be out to lunch but she'll fly just fine like a cessna lol.

I was just showing our friend that you don't need every single item going just to walk in, start and fly in aircraft. Definately not the prefered way of flying it.

[Piggles 17]

Hypothetical, not theoretical. There is a difference.

 

There's no such thing as a "CAT D" sim, btw. I think you mean Level D. Hiring one for an hour will cost you much more than hiring a light aircraft, even in the UK.

 

 

You could, but why not have them work for you. The NGX pilot let loose in a real 737 will be very familiar with IRS alignment. Flying a route without the FMS to help would make the OP's challenge unecessarily harder.

 

No it doesn't cost more - the hour I had cost £150 to hire the sim, a Warrior wet in the UK currently costs £170 per hour (obviously I am quoting my own flying club, you may find them cheaper elsewhere) - check the web they run the sims for the public at a far lower cost than for real training sessions. I assume it is better to have them up and operating than left standing for long down periods.

 

You can pretty much sum up the thread with the line 'I would not bother with the transponder' I guess that particular simmer didn't realize that setting it to 7700 would light up the radar controller's entire screen to alert them to the 'hypothetical' (i.e. if I don't have a clue about it, it doesn't matter) situation lol.

[dmwalker 613]

I understood that fixed simulator prices were similar to RW single engine private planes but full motion simulator prices were about three times as much.

[xxJohnxx 21]

Hi,

 

You can pretty much sum up the thread with the line 'I would not bother with the transponder' I guess that particular simmer didn't realize that setting it to 7700 would light up the radar controller's entire screen to alert them to the 'hypothetical' (i.e. if I don't have a clue about it, it doesn't matter) situation lol.

 

Don't get me wrong please. I have an idea what squawk 7700 does. However, in this situation I am not sure if the ATC would know that something is wrong before the cabin does. Either if the pilots pass away instantly nobody can talk to the ATC anymore and neither anyone will inform the cabin crew. (Yeah sure they will find it out sooner or later). If the copilot and the pilot start to feel sick they probably will inform cabin crew and ATC. Now in the second case ATC is aware that the crew has a problem. The momment communications stop ATC will probably also figure out that there is a bigger problem than expected.

In the first case I also assume that anybody who could fly the aircraft won't be in the cockpit 10 seconds after the pilots are dead or disabled or whatever.

In the meantime, while nobody is in the cockpit flying, whilst the stewardess is looking out for somebody to fly, the aircraft probably will continue it's route. Now (if we aren't over the atlantic, or in a hughe controllzone) I would assume ATC will at one point try to conntact the aircraft. Be it for a frequency change, a traffic warning or whatever, and then he will also start to assume that something is wrong.

I am sure aware of that this may not be always the case but as small the chances are that both pilots die, I asume that the chances are high that ATC will know before the cabin crew that there is a problem.

 

Anyways, you can pull more attention towards yourself by setting transponder code 7700, however that doesn't help you in my point of view, as nobody will answer over your transponder. Probably ATC is gonna ask what the problem is at some point, however first you have to even hear the callsign at this point, and then you will have to use the radio anyways.

However if you figure out the radio instead setting transponder codes you can at least try to explain the situation and get them help you, which 7700 on the transponder doesn't.

[kevinh 409]

No it doesn't cost more - the hour I had cost £150 to hire the sim, a Warrior wet in the UK currently costs £170 per hour (obviously I am quoting my own flying club, you may find them cheaper elsewhere) - check the web they run the sims for the public at a far lower cost than for real training sessions. I assume it is better to have them up and operating than left standing for long down periods.

I suppose it depends what sim it is and who you hire it from. Virtual Aviation quote £690 for one hour on a full flight simulator. Obviously if several people share the cost comes down. They had a much cheaper rate for a fixed base sim, but you did say Level D.

 

You can pretty much sum up the thread with the line 'I would not bother with the transponder' I guess that particular simmer didn't realize that setting it to 7700 would light up the radar controller's entire screen to alert them to the 'hypothetical' (i.e. if I don't have a clue about it, it doesn't matter) situation lol.

I disagree, the transponder issue is not central to the argument. The simmer wouldn't be allowed off the ground if they dialed in 7700. Transponder codes aren't essential to the OP's question and flying with a code that ATC hasn't issued is just as likely to attract their attention.

 

The hypothetical point is to get around certain practical problems which people have been laying down as obstacles instead of considering the question the OP posed. For example, how you get access to the 737, file a flight plan if you are starting from cold, emergencies, etc. It doesn't mean you can ignore something you don't understand.

 

BTW Miss Piggie, you're supposed to sign your posts here. LOL. :rolleyes:

[G550flyer 1,047]

Meet me out in PHX and I'll treat you to a 'berto's burrito. You haven't lived until you've tried one, but unless you're near a restroom later, catastrophe will surely follow.

 

No joke.

Thats funny lol. One day while hanging in the air refueling orbit, my co-pilot checked off and said he had to visit the lav. He hadn't look too good the whole evening. Suddenly we were tasked with a couple of customers looking for a few thousand pounds of petro. My boom headed to the back and i asked the flight engineer to go check on prince charming. I glanced to my left and noticed 1 guy rolling in on my left wing while 1 slipped in trail. I made a PA announcement telling the co to come back asap. I even flicked the seat belt switch multiple times. I didn't want to delay the customers so i gave the boom permission to do his thing. It's easy to handle the radios and monitor the aircraft while passing gas but it's not allowed since it's a critical phase. I don't know if he had one of those burritos but he didn't make it back up front until approach. He was put on quaters and grounded for 3 days.