Can we pilot a real 737 if we can

[Great Ozzie 101]

So, tell me what these are meant to elicit, in terms of a response:

 

I do not think you want me to respond... and even if I did, I doubt it would have any impact other than to provoke you into further rants.

 

- R.

[vololiberista 205]

Try this for size! Both pilots are totally incapacitated having eaten too many snails for supper. You are called into the cockpit to sort things out. You didn't know when you boarded the a/c that your crew were the only crew that had decided to route smack through the middle of a storm instead of diverting as they should and the rest did. Just as you are familiarising yourself with the instrument readings and cockpit layout, the AP drops out. It's over to you. But you'd better decide quickly as all our lives depend on you now!

[henri5 16]

Try this for size! Both pilots are totally incapacitated having eaten too many snails for supper. You are called into the cockpit to sort things out. You didn't know when you boarded the a/c that your crew were the only crew that had decided to route smack through the middle of a storm instead of diverting as they should and the rest did. Just as you are familiarising yourself with the instrument readings and cockpit layout, the AP drops out. It's over to you. But you'd better decide quickly as all our lives depend on you now!

 

Try again: both pilots are not allowed to eat the same meal (the Captain chooses first).

 

Henri

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I do not think you want me to respond... and even if I did, I doubt it would have any impact other than to provoke you into further rants.

 

Well now I'm curious...

[xxJohnxx 21]

Try again: both pilots are not allowed to eat the same meal (the Captain chooses first).

 

We had this already. What if they eat the same for dinner or brrakfeast?

[dmwalker 613]

Sorry. Disregard.

[henri5 16]

ERrrrr, fellas....

 

This forum seems to bew divided between people who feel that the probability of survival of an NGX simmer in the real thing would be zero, and those who think it is close to 100%. There are actually a few (more reasonable IMHO) people who think that the probabiity is not high, but not quite zero. First remove all the difficulties that are raised by some of the naysayers (such as the FMC being scrambled, an engine or other important part being nonfunctional, wind, rain and fog, a stewardess doing a striptease in the cockpit, etc), which seems to imply that if the conditions were perfect (which is the real question), then it MIGHT be possible. Then an ANSWERABLE question becomes "Under what conditions if any could a competent NGX simmer land a real NGX under perfect conditions (no wind or weather problems, no equipment problems except for the nut holding the yoke, etc)". For example, if the FMC were already totally configured, the wheels are down, the newbie is in radio contact with ATC, the aircraft is almost lined up with the runway, the NAV has grabbed the ILS and all that remains to do is to press the app button then the second command button and lower the flaps further when ordered by the ATC, does anyone doubt that the plane would land safely on the runway? Whether it would be stopped safely is a second question, but let us leave that for the moment.

 

Although I don't know the answer and because despite many hours I have not mastered all of the PMDG NGX features (does that damm APU switch for the bleed have to be on off or auto to start the engine?), I would GUESS that the answer is "not zero" especially because of the following:

 

1) Inexperienced people - even some without any airliner simulation experience have successfull lander a "true" NGX simulator or other airliner;

2) The are many documented cases of pilots not experienced in a given airplane successfully landing it using knowledge from other aircraft. The latter includes cases of pilots who had not flown for many many years.

 

Would you believe 5%? How about 1%? Would you believe 0.0001%? (Maxwell Smart)

 

Henri

[dmwalker 613]

The fact is, I wouldn't be comfortable landing any aircraft other than my own, (well perhaps a A340/A380 if needs be), without the accompaniment of a training Captain keeping an eye over me.

 

Asking out of ignorance, how could an A330 pilot feel comfortable landing an A380? Is the size difference not as important a factor as I would imagine?

 

Also, why does an experienced RW airline pilot indulge in PMDG or other high quality simulations?

[henri5 16]

We had this already. What if they eat the same for dinner or brrakfeast?

 

Well, I guess that depends on how long it takes for the poison to take effect, which is beyond my knowledge. But from my experience with getting the runs when visiting hot countries, and considering how long it takes to make flight plans, wait in line and so on, chances are pretty high that they will never leave the ground. Any poison experts on this forum? since my experience with "tourista" may not be typical nor relevant, and besides, the last time I went to Cuba, I had the opposite effect and couldn't go for over a week...

 

Henri

 

PS: Maybe my mentioning "tourista" on this forum may not be a good idea; I just remembered that when George Bush went to Mexico and made a joke about that, it created a major diplomatic incident more severe than the one when he threw up on the Japanese Prime Minister at a banquet...

[Airbus Commander 563]

Asking out of ignorance, how could an A330 pilot feel comfortable landing an A380? Is the size difference not as important a factor as I would imagine?

 

Also, why does an experienced RW airline pilot indulge in PMDG or other high quality simulations?

They are different aircraft, but if there was an airplane, and we went through the whole rigmaroll of having both pilots fall ill and the CC call out "Can anyone on board fly the airplane" then I'd rather be in an A380 than a 737, simply because with its FBW technology, it's going to handle almost identical to what I'm used to.

 

As for why I'm into FS, well, I don't know, I like flying the low and slow GA, I like the learning curve associated with some aircraft like the JS41, the NGX, 747, MD11 etc. I work with some of the other add-on companies, namely FSlabs, to give them the input they require to finish their project. My two sons both play FSX, so it's a bit of bonding and quality time I get to spend with them, I could go on. But I get the fact it seems weird to bring your work home, and then get your kicks out of it.

 

Regards,

Ró.

[FLEX1978 373]

 

 

Asking out of ignorance, how could an A330 pilot feel comfortable landing an A380? Is the size difference not as important a factor as I would imagine?

 

Also, why does an experienced RW airline pilot indulge in PMDG or other high quality simulations?

 

While I have no indepth knowledge regarding the A380 I would assume normal law is still based on a 1g load factor.

 

Regarding real world pilots using fs addons, I know plenty of real world commercial pilots that use FS. a good friend of mine on the A320/330 even uses the PSS/Wilco merge.

 

I probably know at least 20 adults that fly pax real world in heavy jets and still indulge in FS. Flying is a passion and learning experience.

 

Oops, Ronan replied at the same time.

[MikeBravo 0]

Well, after having read through some of the 19 pages and skipped most of the argueing, here are my 2 cents: I'd say it greatly depends on the personality of the pilot and the equipment that person is using at home to simulate flight.

 

I've been in "realsize" sims three times: the first time was a full-motion antonov prop aircraft (AN26 or 28 cant remember) in a time when I was flying just with a keyboard. This actual simulator was used to train real-life pilots by real instructors, one of which was with me in the sim. After some time to get used to the controls I did a few good landings, and a few bad ones, but at the time I don't think I'd be able to land a real a/c, surely not a jet. What I did find was that the full-motion aspect didn't make much difference, if anything it was better than the fix base sims I flew later. In the fix-base ones, the display of the outside world was moving while the sim was not, which made me slightly sea-sick in the beginning. Like being inside a boat, just the other way around.

Also, unless on extreme bank angles the slight movements didn't hurt me at all. Most at my disadvantage was the lack of yoke experience and the fact that at the time I used not FSX but flightgear, which is not very realistic.

 

The second time was a fix-base 737NG, still in keyboard on flightgear era, and the first landing ended in a stall-crash on final. I had some problems in the beginning to control the aircraft but got used to it very quickly, although I found the pressures I had to use on the controls quite tiring. In the end I managed a reasonable landing in Insbruck.

 

The third time I already had FSX and a saitek yoke system, and again a fix-base 737NG with a real-life pilot behind me but not at the yoke. Instead my mate, who has no idea about flying, operated the flaps and some switches on demand.

 

Well, I nailed every landing, even an ILS cat II, although I overrun the runway on that one.

 

But to get back to the original question: I think a simmer will be able to get an aircraft going, but anyone taking possesion of an aircraft without proper license should be shot

I do also think that if the right person (ie reasonably experienced simmer with yoke system) is on board of a plane without crew there's a good chance the plane will make it to the ground without injuries.

[TurboTomato 90]

Here:

 

Er, I genuinely don't know much about you so don't suggest your reputation precedes you. I can briefly work out from this thread that you've got GA experience but I think I'm also correct in saying that you don't have any TRs on commercial airliners. My comments were tongue-in-cheek, not a personal attack.

 

Sorry but I'm not buying your 'everybody in the business has a vested interest therefore they'll always tell you it can't be done' line because you could use that argument for absolutely anything.

 

To be honest I'm not sure we're even arguing about the same point - I'm talking about the original question, cold/dark to cold/dark. My opinion on that is no, it is extremely unlikely it could be done. Taking over the controls in flight in a pilots-incapacitated scenario is a very different question.

[nathan2k1 0]

Of course the question was going to be interpreted or changed over time since the topic first began, probably just the nature of these types of blogs / conversations. Engaging with this is not so bad since that is what I thought we were all here to do; taking note of course on the requirement of not going "off topic" so to speak. It turned from simmer doing cold and dark to, can a simmer land in an emergency, or whatever situation would require it.

 

So back to the original question, a theoretical one, because of course, a simmer is never going to be required to start up from cold and dark, do a flight, land and shut down to cold and dark unless it's intentional and richard branson is a bit bored one day. Theoretical and as unlikely as it is to be, it's still a valid question to be answered I suppose - could anyone do anything they are not qualified to do?. Maybe simmer could do it, the likely hood of doing it "properly" without fault is probably not very high, but then who am I to comment. Never flown one of those beasties and if I ever do I will let you know lol.

 

As for the latter type scenarios of landing in an emergency and so on and so forth, these are more likely theoretical scenarios and the possibility is not completely zero. (At least that is what I percieved from all of the answers). That is probably why the conversation eventually transformed into that discussion, and I generally agree with most if not all inputs here.

 

 

But as most of the real world pilots have said, whilst it wouldn't be looking good, it's not impossible, but living in reality, who knows unless we see it done. Not something i'd wish on anyone of course.

 

 

Nathan

[Piggles 17]

The thread will never end if you always tell people what they know and don't know, you make too many assumptions.

 

You totally dissed my story about my 1st lesson, "instructor flying with his feet while I thought I was doing it", whats all that about? instructors talking about me behind my back etc! . I don't know why you have this attitude or would assume that. I suppose I didn't fly behind the tow aircraft and land the glider at Scotlandwell airfield either, the instructor was doing it.

 

A very small minority of people could fly the 737 and somehow live to tell the story, most wouldn't manage.

 

You might figure it out why it is such a common scenario - set the trim so the plane will take-off anyway, keep it straight with your feet.. and the 75 year old Grandmother with no previous sim or flight experience just took off all on her own. Your attitude that you were a born sky god certainly is enough to provoke a reaction from most experienced pilots, we've all heard it or seen it before. Yep it is that easy, now one can assume you would easily land a 737 on your own too.. You don't even start flying until you are on your own and things are not going to plan, doing a trial lesson with the instructor covering every eventually does not make you a pilot.

 

Fortunately this thread has ended now with professional input as far as I am concerned. Anyone still continuing to try to win points or argue otherwise is getting nowhere in my mind. The answer was entirely predictable.