Can we pilot a real 737 if we can

[Piggles 17]

This topic should become a special on the Mythbusters show. Me thinks B)

 

Only if they use real planes and not simulators (this time)

[pete_auau 1,168]

Only if they use real planes and not simulators (this time)

 

Lol

[Vargveum 53]

Only if they use real planes and not simulators (this time)

 

Of course! ^_^

[Vargveum 53]

The only amateur I have seen fly a 737 was this Belgian tv-guy. Has been mentioned on the forums before I think. He did some touch and goes with a Jetairfly 737 (not alone though)

 

Couldn't find the whole episode anymore, but here is a small clip.

[vololiberista 205]

The argument has two sides really. One: Albert has spent 10 hours a day (to the chagrin of his wife and children) in front of his computer screen playing at flying. Having never actually been in a real cockpit. Also having to cope with gross "upsets" like "Dinner's ready!", "Can you answer the door, I'm in the bathroom" etc etc. by pressing the pause button.

Two: A PPL answers the emergency request. He/she has a night rating, instrument rating and even with luck a multi-engine rating. He is also trained in identifying gross upsets and recovering from them. But more importantly trained in not letting the a/c get into that situation in the first place. They are (should be) aware of what the a/c is doing, why it's doing it and what the consequence will be. Correcting the flight path before the a/c gets there. Pressing the right knobs and buttons in the right sequence is a large part of modern flying. But it's NOT flying. Only pilots are trained for that. What happens if your average simmer enters the cockpit and says "Oh, it doesn't look exactly the same as my computer". "I can't remember what switch to push. "Oops, sorry I cancelled the AP by mistake-What the heck do I do now!"

[NJ_Flyer 3]

Well said Voloiberista..

 

Personally I would hate to be on an aircraft where something happened to both flight crew and a flight sim "pilot" put their hand up.. sadly I think that they could probably convince an FA that they have "flying hours".

 

If you haven't flown a REAL aircraft, then you honestly have no idea what you are in for. Sitting in front of a computer screem is slightly different than sitting in a real aircraft.

 

My post will probably get shot down but oh well..

[krylite 0]

Of course in the situation, where the question is raised if there's a pilot, an NGX simmer would responsibly support the GA PPL guy who raises his hand. But could offer to assist in the co-pilot section and give the PPL guy a heads up on the systems. Assuming there is absolutely no one else avaialable with flight experience ala pilots disappearing like the "Langoliers".

 

All the A/C functions are covered in the PMDG manuals which is basically the Boeing manuals repackaged. We are not talking about average NGX simmers which seems to be a misconception in this thread who just game it and show off the NGX to their friends, nor GA FSX simmers who have not really looked into the depth of the NGX. A dedicated simmer wouldn't just use FSX and PMDG materials either. They would most likely have studied through professional guides:

 

http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/1560276231

http://www.amazon.co...2208435-0790159

http://www.amazon.co...2208435-0790159

http://www.amazon.co...2208435-0790159

[xxJohnxx 21]

Hi,

 

Of course in the situation, where the question is raised if there's a pilot, an NGX simmer would responsibly support the GA PPL guy who raises his hand. But could offer to assist in the co-pilot section and give the PPL guy a heads up on the systems. Assuming there is absolutely no one else avaialable with flight experience ala pilots disappearing like the "Langoliers".

 

As a PPL guy I would prefere to have the guy on the radio tell me what switch to press when, instead of the simmer.

As a simmer I would only put my hand up if there is nobody who does have a PPL or something similar. If there is nobody, at least you can try it. Crashing into the ground because you at least tried to land the plane is still better than crash into the ground because nobody tried it.

 

I followed the topic for a few days now, and I came to one question: Would a simmer know where the mic-switch is, and how to operate it (note: some aircraft (MD-11 for instance) have a mic switch which can be operated in two directions, but how knows that?)? Does the simmer know which frequency tune to when nobody answers on the actual frequency? Does the simmer understand radio transmissons, which in my experience, can be of very bad audio quality sometimes?

 

Does a PPL know where the mic switch is? I would answere this with a maybe. At least he probably knows that it has to be on the yoke. Probably he will disconnect the autopilot by accident, but eventually he will find it.

Does a PPL know which frequency to tune when nobody answers? I think most PPL know that 121.500Mhz is the emergency frequency. If they can tune it and set the radio to it is another question.

Does the PPL understand radio transmissions with bad audioquality? I would also answere this with yes, as you are probably used to it. (If not I invite you to come to the alps and try your luck on the radio :wink: )

 

In an emergency where the pilots are dead my money is on the PPL guy which also has flightsimulator experiance.

[Rations 102]

A dedicated simmer wouldn't just use FSX and PMDG materials either. They would most likely have studied through professional guides:

There would probably be some training materials in the cockpit. Even an iPad makes quick referencing (via Find function) convenient. Regardless, it shouldn't be a serious problem to find and make use of the manuals in the cockpit, especially since a dedicated FSX enthusiast would already have an understanding of the functions and purposes of each manual.

 

Would a simmer know where the mic-switch is, and how to operate it (note: some aircraft (MD-11 for instance) have a mic switch which can be operated in two directions, but how knows that?)? Does the simmer know which frequency tune to when nobody answers on the actual frequency? Does the simmer understand radio transmissons, which in my experience, can be of very bad audio quality sometimes?

Well, shouldn't one start with setting the transponder to 7700 first, as it seems to be the easiest way of expressing an emergency situation if he or she does not know how to communicate using the radios?

[xxJohnxx 21]

Hi,

 

Well, shouldn't one start with setting the transponder to 7700 first, as it seems to be the easiest way of expressing an emergency situation if he or she does not know how to communicate using the radios?

 

In such a situation I wouldn't care about the transponder, as I wouldn't care if the cabin temperature is 22°C or 23°C.

I would care about trying to communicate to somebody, instead of fiddeling arround with the transponder. 7700 doesn't help you any more than leaving it on the actual setting, as the ATC probably already noticed that something is wrong, so better make them help you instead of telling them usless information, before they get the idea to send somebody to intercept you.

[pete_auau 1,168]

serious problem to find and make use of the manuals in the cockpit, especially since a dedicated FSX enthusiast would already have an understanding of the functions and purposes of each manual.

 

Some of the siimmers here dont know where to find the manual on their pc, so how do you expect them to use the manual on the aircraft and using the find option on ipad well, we all know that everyone uses the search option in the forum to search for their problems dont we :Thinking:

[Rations 102]

In such a situation I wouldn't care about the transponder, as I wouldn't care if the cabin temperature is 22°C or 23°C.

I would care about trying to communicate to somebody, instead of fiddeling arround with the transponder.

That comparison is rather extreme.

 

Using the transponder correctly is another form of communication when one can not figure out how to communicate by radio (initially). It only takes a few seconds, and can attract attention very quickly especially if ATC has in fact not noticed. If I were in that "emergency" situation, I would want to calm and comfort myself knowing that I had at least successfully notified someone about my desperate situation before risking misplaced button presses and autopilot disengagement as you mentioned. . . . Of course, if you know how to communicate via radio, then doing such would be much better.

 

Some of the siimmers here dont know where to find the manual on their pc, so how do you expect them to use the manual on the aircraft and using the find option on ipad well, we all know that everyone uses the search option in the forum to search for their problems dont we :Thinking:

Hopefully these "emergency" circumstances would cause these behaviors to change miraculously. . . .

[kevinh 409]

Limited mind frame forum participants? LMAO So just because you have a pair of headsets on and a butt grin on your face, makes you the resident expert?

 

I'm done with this thread, nite!

 

- Sent from my rooted, Verizon Samsung Galaxy Nexus LTE smartphone via Tapatalk because haters gonna hate.

I don't think Kyle's avatar has anything to do with his credibility, any more than yours does, so let's keep the personal stuff out of this. He made a valid point, some people seem to be saying the NGX pilot has to be able to deal with any potential emergency. But this is a hypothetical question: can it be done? So ideal conditions can be assumed. The vast majority of 737 flights are routine, with no emergencies at all. It is a simism (to borrow Kyle's word) to think that emergencies are likely. So they can be discounted for the purposes of this thread.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

It is an emergency situation, it would be nothing like a birthday experience sim session, which I'm sure many of us have done and landed an airliner.

 

Here we have people saying the aircraft is already set-up for ILS approach..... ...... punch a couple of buttons all will end find - no real world pilot would be expecting the flight to continue as normal in this circumstance, at the very least one would expect diversion to a military base in a low population area.

 

Also don't forget to wave to the F16s too, because for sure they will be up there with you considering past events. I hope ngx includes practice of intercept procedures...

 

I think the only wrong assumptions being made in this thread are coming from those that think flying an aircraft for the first time in your life in a stressful life and death situation would somehow be much easier than it ever could be in reality.

It's a hypothetical emergency situation. You don't have to worry about people in the back, they aren't real. Also the F-16s will soon work out this in no security threat and try and help, as they did with the Helios accident. No need for the NGX pilot to be aware of intercept procedures, especially if he can answer their radio calls.

 

I think the initial question from the OP was simply: "Can we pilot a real 737 if we can pilot the NGX 737 cold and dark to cold and dark perfectly ?"

 

Now, my answer to that would be (not claiming to know the right answers, but my point of view):

 

If you were a realworld 737 pilot: YES (of course)

 

If you were a realworld pilot in another type of commercial jet: PROBABLY

 

If you were a realworld PPL with considerable realworld flying experience and thorough knowledge of the NG (including a lot of time in the NGX): PLAUSIBLE, BUT A HANDFULL

 

If you had no realworld experience, but had extensive knowledge of the NG from the manuals and by flying the NGX: I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT. GOOD LUCK!

Please remember the 737 is capable of landing itself in perfect safety if the FMS and AFCS is set up correctly and it's a fair assumption that our NGX user has done this many times, possibly even for every flight. There's no requirement for the simmer to manually land to satisfy the OP's question, as clearly FSX does not equip anyone to manually fly an aircraft.

 

There would probably be some training materials in the cockpit. Even an iPad makes quick referencing (via Find function) convenient. Regardless, it shouldn't be a serious problem to find and make use of the manuals in the cockpit, especially since a dedicated FSX enthusiast would already have an understanding of the functions and purposes of each manual.

 

 

Well, shouldn't one start with setting the transponder to 7700 first, as it seems to be the easiest way of expressing an emergency situation if he or she does not know how to communicate using the radios?

There would (or should) be a QRH on board. Let's say we can assume there is one. As for the 7700 transponder code, if the simmer can't work the radios you can't assume he knows such codes either.

[Vargveum 53]

Please remember the 737 is capable of landing itself in perfect safety if the FMS and AFCS is set up correctly and it's a fair assumption that our NGX user has done this many times, possibly even for every flight. There's no requirement for the simmer to manually land to satisfy the OP's question, as clearly FSX does not equip anyone to manually fly an aircraft.

 

Pushing a few buttons isn't the same as flying. At least in my book.

[kevinh 409]

 

Pushing a few buttons isn't the same as flying. At least in my book.

I agree with you, it isn't. But manual flying is not necessary to complete this hypothetical flight.