My very first test of the force controlled Stick in the homebuild cockpit

It's a modded Thrustmaster Cougar, very very close to the real deal.

 

In the 1950s a Gloster Meteor was modified to evaluate the effects of "g"-forces when flying with the pilot in a prone position. This incorporated a small side-stick.

 

Although I can't find a reference to it, I believe that experiments were carried out in the USA using a completely rigid stick. Stress gauges were attached to its base to record the forces applied to the stick by the pilot. My recollection is that the aircraft could be flown and controlled normally.

In the 1950s a Gloster Meteor was modified to evaluate the effects of "g"-forces when flying with the pilot in a prone position. This incorporated a small side-stick.

 

Although I can't find a reference to it, I believe that experiments were carried out in the USA using a completely rigid stick. Stress gauges were attached to its base to record the forces applied to the stick by the pilot. My recollection is that the aircraft could be flown and controlled normally.

 

Look one post up and there you see an almost exact representation of how the F16 is flown for years now, using stress gauges B)

Another 50th Anniversary hint. This a/c STILL holds the fastest ever commercial subsonic Atlantic crossing.

Another 50th Anniversary hint. This a/c STILL holds the fastest ever commercial subsonic Atlantic crossing.

I'm pretty sure that the VC10 holds that record, so you might want to check that one again... :mellow:

The VC10? Although I never knew it was FBW

The VC10 does still hold the transatlantic crossing record as far as I'm aware.

The flight control are FBW.

http://www.vc10.net/Technical/hydraulics.html

VC10 is FBW? Well that's a new one one me... Any excerpt from the FCOM to that effect?

The VC10 does still hold the transatlantic crossing record as far as I'm aware.

The flight control are FBW.

http://www.vc10.net/...hydraulics.html

 

Are you sure?

 

Your link states that there are individual electrically-powered hydraulic pumps powering the control jacks. It then states "the controls can be moved as demanded by the servo valves which are connected to the flying controls". It doesn't state if these connections are mechanical or electrical? At the time the VC10 was being developed I think they would have been mechanical.

Are you sure?

 

Your link states that there are individual electrically-powered hydraulic pumps powering the control jacks. It then states "the controls can be moved as demanded by the servo valves which are connected to the flying controls". It doesn't state if these connections are mechanical or electrical? At the time the VC10 was being developed I think they would have been mechanical.

That's exactly what I'm thinking, from the sounds of that particular article, it sounds like the VC10 was your standard run of the mill mechanically controlled, hydraulic assisted aeroplane...

 

And I'm pretty sure the Concorde was the first FBW aircraft in commercial service and that the VC10 entered service about 5-6 years before the Concorde.

Sorry guys the links "are" electrical.

Fly By Wire uses hydraulics. Control surfaces are moved by hydraulics, but commands from the control column are carried to the control-surface via electrical signal. The electrical signal commands the hydraulic system to move the control surface. The hydraulic system still moves the control-surface. There are three warning lights in front of the pilots "Feel Fail" and "Power Controls".The VC10 has also an unusual split sytem in case of failure. One control column will control pitch and the other roll etc.

This little snippet from the flight manuel shows what's available when an engine out requires deployment of the Elrat. "Emergency Lowered Ram Air Turbine"

 

The real terminology is "analogue electronic flight control system" instead of "digital".

Concorde systems were a direct read across from experience gained on the VC10 and Valiant (the first fbw). By the time Concorde went into service the fbw systems on the VC10 were proven to be so reliable that a decision was made "not" to upgrade Concorde to digital fbw.

The VC10 autopilot controlled the a/c entirely by electronic means i.e. electronic signals to the PCU's.

Sorry guys the links "are" electrical.

Fly By Wire uses hydraulics. Control surfaces are moved by hydraulics, but commands from the control column are carried to the control-surface via electrical signal. The electrical signal commands the hydraulic system to move the control surface. The hydraulic system still moves the control-surface. There are three warning lights in front of the pilots "Feel Fail" and "Power Controls".The VC10 has also an unusual split sytem in case of failure. One control column will control pitch and the other roll etc.

This little snippet from the flight manuel shows what's available when an engine out requires deployment of the Elrat. "Emergency Lowered Ram Air Turbine"

 

 

I still don't think that the attachement definitively supports yoour point. Can you post something that explains how the servo valves are controlled.

I still don't think that the attachement definitively supports yoour point. Can you post something that explains how the servo valves are controlled.

 

Short of copying 28 pages of AP electrical diagrams etc which I don't think is necessary. You are still thinking of just one form of FBY ie. digital fly by wire.

The VC10. Valiant and Concorde utilised as I've said above an "analogue electronic flight control system" the exception on the VC10 and Concorde being the AP which controls the flying surfaces entirely by electrical signal.

Failure of all generator units results in almost total loss of flight control with the control column being nothing more than a useful hat hook, which is why deployment of the ELRAT is absolutely crucial.

 

Here is a snippet from the no.3 bus supply diagram where you can see how the ELRAT feeds the PCU's

 

 

 

As in all/most other a/c of the day the VC10 did not have the control column as an integral part of the hydraulic system. Some of the spectacular loss of flight control accidents due to severed hydraulic lines cannot happen in the VC10.

 

Reluctant to add much to this because I can't find enough specific info but Having read what I can find regarding the fbw on the vc10 I think its pretty much a conventional a/c and not electrically input controls, my reason is the following.

The flight control pcu's were self contained units with there own small reservoirs with electric pumps hence the need for the elrat so that in the event of loss of electrics there would be a bus that powered the pcu's electric pumps mentioned earlier in this thread.

The info I found also stated that in a complete loss of electrical power then the tailplane and spoilers could be used to control the a/c in pitch and roll