BP=0 and locked frame rate.

[CFIJose 5,485]

Can anybody offer a technical explanation for the following...

 

1. Why was BP=0 and locked at 60 FPS fine with an i7920/GTX580 at 4GHz, but generated artifacts with an i73770k/GTX580 at 4.5GHz?

 

2. Why would simply knocking the frame rate limiter back to 50, from 60 clear up artifacts with the i73770k?

 

 

Incidentally, with my old i7920 [4GHz] and the GTX580, BP=0 gave me an extra 10 frames in bad weather.

 

However, the i73770k [4.5GHz] and GTX580, with BP=0 gives me an extra 17 frames per second. A full 63% increase in performance. You can imagine how pleased I am that I now have BP=0 working again.

I have a feeling that if you remove the gtx 580 and put a gtx 680 in there you will probably be able to lock at 60fps.

 

I think it's all about balancing the system. A faster CPU requires a faster GPU when it comes to FSX's performance. Play with the FSX sliders.

[martin-w 3,234]

Well, I don't need to play with the sliders, or change GPU all is well now. Who wouldn't be satisfied with frame rate locked at 50 and smooth.

 

Agree regarding the 680.

 

Just trying to get my head round this, out of interest.

 

M-Theroy/String Theroy is far easier. :lol:

[Air France 19]

Really? I always thought that 30fps was nirvana.

 

Waitttt....So we shouldn't lock our frames to 30??? What should we set them to? Unlimited? I was to;d to always lock them at 30......

[Air France 19]

True or False??

[DISPLAY]

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30

Many are using external limiters, many are using internal.

I found out (and got it recently confirmed) that external limiters cause blurries and more stutters.

The fact is that internal limiter is as smooth as FSX can get, if FSX achieves the limited FPS without a problem. If you combine this with the BP=0 tweak, you are going to get even better smoothness.

30 is not a magic bullet for everyone, although it’s probably the most used setting. Doesn’t mean it’s going to work for everyone though. If you have older hardware, you might be forced to go lower, 20-25 even. It’s all about what your machine can handle, considering both hardware and settings. The best though would be to aim for 30fps, due to the new VSYNC tweak.

Setting higher FPS is a bad idea and should not be done, much same like running unlimited.

*this should be set the same in P3D

[Guest Raul_Hernandez]

True or False??

[DISPLAY]

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30

Many are using external limiters, many are using internal.

I found out (and got it recently confirmed) that external limiters cause blurries and more stutters.

The fact is that internal limiter is as smooth as FSX can get, if FSX achieves the limited FPS without a problem. If you combine this with the BP=0 tweak, you are going to get even better smoothness.

30 is not a magic bullet for everyone, although it’s probably the most used setting. Doesn’t mean it’s going to work for everyone though. If you have older hardware, you might be forced to go lower, 20-25 even. It’s all about what your machine can handle, considering both hardware and settings. The best though would be to aim for 30fps, due to the new VSYNC tweak.

Setting higher FPS is a bad idea and should not be done, much same like running unlimited.

*this should be set the same in P3D

 

Different opinions and views on the subject that is all.

 

Contrary to what people will tell you, there are no 'Bibles' ...... because one lot of good advice may only apply on certain configurations..... For example, Word Not Allowed's guide contains great tips for nVidia users, but a good proportion of the tips are irrelevant at best, or performance-reducing at worst, for ATI users.

 

So as with anything, you read people's "views" and take the bits that work for you.

 

For most, locking at 30 FPS is the way to go, but some will prefer a higher locking rate. Me personally, I would avoid 50 FPS, because I do believe there is a benefit to locking frames at a number that is relevent to your monitor's refresh rate....... so for me, frames would always be locked at 30 or 60 FPS (based on a 60Hz refresh monitor).

[Air France 19]

Different opinions and views on the subject that is all.

 

Contrary to what people will tell you, there are no 'Bibles' ...... because one lot of good advice may only apply on certain configurations..... For example, Word Not Allowed's guide contains great tips for nVidia users, but a good proportion of the tips are irrelevant at best, or performance-reducing at worst, for ATI users.

 

So as with anything, you read people's "views" and take the bits that work for you.

 

For most, locking at 30 FPS is the way to go, but some will prefer a higher locking rate. Me personally, I would avoid 50 FPS, because I do believe there is a benefit to locking frames at a number that is relevent to your monitor's refresh rate....... so for me, frames would always be locked at 30 or 60 FPS (based on a 60Hz refresh monitor).

 

Thank you! I will try to lock them at 60 and see if I get a performance increase. Right now I have them set at 30. My video card is a GeForce GTX 670.

[Guest Raul_Hernandez]

Thank you! I will try to lock them at 60 and see if I get a performance increase. Right now I have them set at 30. My video card is a GeForce GTX 670.

 

Definitely worth a try. Also bear in mind that Word Not Allowed's guide suggests using the internal FSX frame rate limiter, over an external limiter, but my own experience is that using AntiLag FSX (free external limiter, just google it) locked at 30 FPS, with the FSX internal limiter on 'Unlimited' results in a considerably smoother experience.

 

But again, I am an ATI GPU user whereas Word Not Allowed's guide applies to nVidia cards.

[CFIJose 5,485]

Waitttt....So we shouldn't lock our frames to 30??? What should we set them to? Unlimited? I was to;d to always lock them at 30......

Lock FSX at 30fps and don't touch it. Those who are using TrackIR and can't sustain 30fps is because TrackIR decreases performance. If the computer can't maintain 30fps the results is a slowdown. It's not because FSX is locked at 30.

[Bob Scott 7,719]

Can anybody offer a technical explanation for the following...

 

1. Why was BP=0 and locked at 60 FPS fine with an i7920/GTX580 at 4GHz, but generated artifacts with an i73770k/GTX580 at 4.5GHz?

 

2. Why would simply knocking the frame rate limiter back to 50, from 60 clear up artifacts with the i73770k?

 

The 4.5GHz Ivy Bridge CPU is pushing data across to the video card in considerably faster bursts than the 4 GHz 920 was. With BP=0 set, you have disabled video ring buffering, so the video card has to process the data in the frame buffer at least as fast as it arrives--if a burst of data from a video frame write arrives while there's still unprocessed data from the last frame in the buffer, there's a race on for the 580 to clear the tail end of the buffer before it's overwritten by the CPU. When the 580 loses that race, you get artifacts (or worse). I'm thinking that at the slower rate, the video card is able to come close to completely clearing the frame buffer in time for the next frame write, and at the higher rate the faster bursts of data are arriving with too much data still in the buffer, causing buffer overruns that generate artifacts. The frame rate is the (average) number of times that the frame buffer is written per second--but it's not a continuous stream of data. The faster CPU will fill the buffer more quickly when it writes out the frame buffer (assuming that you're not bandwidth-limited on the PCIe channel).

[Guest Raul_Hernandez]

Lock FSX at 30fps and don't touch it. Those who are using TrackIR and can't sustain 30fps is because TrackIR decreases performance. If the computer can't maintain 30fps the results is a slowdown. It's not because FSX is locked at 30.

 

TrackIR yields no loss of performance on my current system (i7 2600k) and indeed it did not on my very modest previous C2D system...

 

....or if it does, the impact is less than 1 FPS hence why I'm not seeing it.

[martin-w 3,234]

The 4.5GHz Ivy Bridge CPU is pushing data across to the video card in considerably faster bursts than the 4 GHz 920 was. With BP=0 set, you have disabled video ring buffering, so the video card has to process the data in the frame buffer at least as fast as it arrives--if a burst of data from a video frame write arrives while there's still unprocessed data from the last frame in the buffer, there's a race on for the 580 to clear the tail end of the buffer before it's overwritten by the CPU. When the 580 loses that race, you get artifacts (or worse). I'm thinking that at the slower rate, the video card is able to come close to completely clearing the frame buffer in time for the next frame write, and at the higher rate the faster bursts of data are arriving with too much data still in the buffer, causing buffer overruns that generate artifacts. The frame rate is the (average) number of times that the frame buffer is written per second--but it's not a continuous stream of data. The faster CPU will fill the buffer more quickly when it writes out the frame buffer (assuming that you're not bandwidth-limited on the PCIe channel).

 

Bob, thanks very much indeed for that explanation

 

 

This is precisely the sort of reply I was looking for.

 

Your explanation would make a lot of sense. :smile:

[martin-w 3,234]

Lock FSX at 30fps and don't touch it. Those who are using TrackIR and can't sustain 30fps is because TrackIR decreases performance. If the computer can't maintain 30fps the results is a slowdown. It's not because FSX is locked at 30.

 

 

Nope, wouldn't agree with that. My own experience is testament to that statements lack of validity.

 

The frame rate lock should be set... at the highest setting that avoids any undesirable effects, like stutters.. For some that will be 30, for others, like me it will be higher.

 

The reason it's generally recommended to lock at 30, is that 30 is "reasonably" smooth to the human eye. Thus, locking at 30 frees up your CPU for other tasks, and reduces stutters.

 

However... sensitive chaps like me, can sense the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. Thus, why I set my frame rate higher. Not forgetting of course, that if you set at 30, it will drop lower and be perceptable.

 

I can get away with it of course, as I experience smoth flight locked at 50. If you can't, on your system, becuse it's not powerful enough, or configured the same as mine, then set lower. By all means 30 if you require it.

 

But regarding advice as gospel, an instruction that MUST be followed, isn't always a good idea.

 

We must always think for ourselves.

[martin-w 3,234]

Me personally, I would avoid 50 FPS, because I do believe there is a benefit to locking frames at a number that is relevent to your monitor's refresh rate....... so for me, frames would always be locked at 30 or 60 FPS (based on a 60Hz refresh monitor).

 

I have a 120Hz monitor, and as you have probably read, I was originally locked at 60. I couldn't claim however, that locking at half my refresh rate was beneficial. I have no evidence to suggest that, but my sim was smooth, so that was fine by me. Where I locked the frame rate, seemed to be irrelevant. However, I didn't test exhaustively at unlimited frames, may well be that with further testing at unlimited, stuttering may have been evident.

 

The reason I dropped that to 50 of course, was to avoid artifacts with BP=0. And in regard to that it's been amazingly susuccessful

 

Will need to test extensively over the comcoming days, but so far I'm thrilled to be sitting in the cockpit of the NGX, on the runway at EGLL, at 44 frames per second, in bad weather.

 

BP=0 gave me +10 FPS with my old i7920, and now +17 FPS with the 3770k. Amazing!

 

P.S. I should add, and as I've said many times now, I'm not a third party, highly detailed airport addict. I'm also not addicted to high sliders. So I will achieve higher frames than many with similar hardware.

[Guest Raul_Hernandez]

I have a 120Hz monitor, and as you have probably read, I was originally locked at 60. I couldn't claim however, that locking at half my refresh rate was beneficial. I have no evidence to suggest that, but my sim was smooth, so that was fine by me. Where I locked the frame rate, seemed to be irrelevant. However, I didn't test exhaustively at unlimited frames, may well be that with further testing at unlimited, stuttering may have been evident.

 

The reason I dropped that to 50 of course, was to avoid artifacts with BP=0. And in regard to that it's been amazingly susuccessful

 

Will need to test extensively over the comcoming days, but so far I'm thrilled to be sitting in the cockpit of the NGX, on the runway at EGLL, at 44 frames per second, in bad weather.

 

BP=0 gave me +10 FPS with my old i7920, and now +17 FPS with the 3770k. Amazing!

 

P.S. I should add, and as I've said many times now, I'm not a third party, highly detailed airport addict. I'm also not addicted to high sliders. So I will achieve higher frames than many with similar hardware.

 

Totally fair enough .... backs up the assertion that there are no hard and fast rules, no bibles to be followed to the letter, and what works for the individual, works.

[captain420 3,099]

I thought bufferpools should be 1 (on) not 0? How are you getting 17+ FPS? I have the 3770k and get about 6-7fps. Been using that guide that was posted on the front page of AVSIM. This is usually around the airport, once I'm airborne it picks up to about 17+ FPS.