Very interesting! But there seems to be an issue where X-Plane won't pick up on variable rotary signal speeds from this board: http://forums.x-plan...=44196&p=595112

 

If I'm reading it right, this means there's no advantage to using a rotary on this board, over assigning a knob's increase/decrease function to a custom keystroke or joystick button (in the respective Advanced tabs).

 

Thoughts?

 

Thoughts, don't have any, haven't got a clue what that post is about, or what he was trying to say. The utility works fine. Do rotary encoders work with Leo's board (is that the question?), certainly.

 

I hooked the encoders up to the board, went into Xplane, and assigned them to what ever I wanted. Do you have to turn them a fair bit to scroll, sure, that's the way they are, better than using a mouse. Is it better than using an existing knob / rocker / toggle switch, can't say, always used encoders. I do like having options though, and with this board I can do whatever I like, rotary encoder, potentiometer, toggle, push button, rocker, etc. Next is going to be a home made Trim Wheel with a high resolution digital pot.

 

Glen

Thoughts, don't have any, haven't got a clue what that post is about, or what he was trying to say. The utility works fine. Do rotary encoders work with Leo's board (is that the question?), certainly.

 

That poster wasn't talking down the utility--nor was I, though I suppose it could be read that way ("no advantage to... over...." a digital method).

 

He know the rotary worked, but according to comment #5 in that thread, the utility has a minimum rotary sample speed of about 50 ms. If one rotary pulse moves the HDG 1 degree, the maximum degree change per second is 20 degrees, so to set the HDG 180° in the opposite direction would take 9 seconds. If you tried turning faster, it would miss pulses and would take longer to reach the HDG you want.

 

When I assign a button to the "autopilot > heading up" command, it can cover 180° in about 5.5 seconds--there's some acceleration logic to start off slow then speed up the longer the button is held down.

 

If it actually does take that long in real life then fair enough (obviously I don't pilot IRL), and that poster was asking for a behaviour that doesn't exist. If you can actually change settings much faster IRL compared to using using this utility in XPlane, then it's a reasonable question.

Dont forget, we are being told by guys who thought that their UI was perfect that this use of a scroll wheel has no purpose being used in a UI like this

 

We are also being told that he is happily content with his goflight gear doing the job. There we go, no motivation to do things any differently.

 

I dont understand why someone can't map the wheel to zoom and someone else can map it to freq change. Is this the only input controller that cant be mapped to different uses? Why does Ben say it has to be one or the other?

 

That poster wasn't talking down the utility--nor was I, though I suppose it could be read that way ("no advantage to... over...." a digital method).

 

He know the rotary worked, but according to comment #5 in that thread, the utility has a minimum rotary sample speed of about 50 ms. If one rotary pulse moves the HDG 1 degree, the maximum degree change per second is 20 degrees, so to set the HDG 180° in the opposite direction would take 9 seconds. If you tried turning faster, it would miss pulses and would take longer to reach the HDG you want.

 

When I assign a button to the "autopilot > heading up" command, it can cover 180° in about 5.5 seconds--there's some acceleration logic to start off slow then speed up the longer the button is held down.

 

If it actually does take that long in real life then fair enough (obviously I don't pilot IRL), and that poster was asking for a behaviour that doesn't exist. If you can actually change settings much faster IRL compared to using using this utility in XPlane, then it's a reasonable question.

 

 

I dont havbe my xpx box turned on to check but does xplane support modifiers, I dont remember?

 

Leo sells the rotary encoders with the push function as well. What would be a good compromise would be to have it set to change in 1 deg increments but when the knob is pushed and turned then the increments are higher. This can be done in another title that I know of.

 

Also with some other boards like the uhid series you can set up the modifiers right on to the board itself so it would work even if xpx didnt support it.

Hmm, when you have limited time, fighting the interface is not going to help. Perhaps LR forgot that simmer sits in front of the computer here and no tactile control? A computer program should use the computer interface appropriately. I stopped using my expensive RXP GNS GPS because without real world knob turning the virtual knob with the mouse is just plain tedious. Oh Well, my yet to arrive XP10 will probably sit un-install. I was already uncomfortable with the demo, I should have trust my gut and leave it alone. Then again I got XP10 on sale, so it's not a huge lost. Oh Well.

Part of the reasoning sucks about it as well. It's not because it's extra work or that they couldnt get it going. It's because they decided it shouldn't be done that way and therefore you should have no option because they are correct. Never mind it's a common thing in other places and by that thread it would seem that their customers very much want it.

 

 

The thing is they determined it should not even be an option for you.

 

I am surprised they let me bind 'S' to 'gear' as unconventional as it is.

For me it is very inconvenient not to use the mouse wheel to change the frequency or HDG ALT ect in VC. There's nothing new about it? I do not know, a plugin or some date nature that solves the problem?

There's no reason why they don't implement it.

 

In FSX we can use the mouse wheel for that and also for Zoom. They both work, depending on the view mode you're in. Why not in X-Plane?

There's no reason why they don't implement it.

 

 

Well. Ben Supnik claims 4 problems:

http://developer.x-plane.com/2012/04/manipulators-and-the-scroll-wheel/

Basically you have to argue with him, not us...

Yes, but from my experience in FSX, I can't agree with his arguments...  I've been using it on many aircraft add-ons, some very complex and with extremelly dense instrument panels, it is also used for zoom in 3d view mode, and for the throttle, prop, mix, etc...  and absolutely no problem....

 

They should really add this possibility.

, it is also used for zoom in 3d view mode, and for the throttle, prop, mix, etc...  and absolutely no problem....

 

 

That's the point that you really can't guarantee, unless you know the code of X-Plane 10! You are talking about your experiences in FSX, while he has to write the code for three different plattforms. If a programmer tells you: "No this is not so easily done" he normally has a reason. In fact Chris Serio gave thwe following reply in another thread on the developer blog:

 

User opinion is not ignored…User opinion is heavily taken into consideration. Users however do NOT have:

1) Our schedule

2) Our feature roadmap

3) Our source code and an understanding of the way the internals of the sim work

4) An understanding of how legacy aircraft work that we need to continue to support

We know what users want but there’s a cost to everything and at the moment I write this, the cost of scroll wheel manipulation is too great. That can change tomorrow, next week, next year or in v11 but you’re not going to see it in X-Plane 10.10 Beta 5 and that’s what this blog post is written about.

 

Perhaps Ben is stil using a single button mouse from the mac days and never caught up with the fact that Steve gave up on that idea too, after all - two buttons are just confusing.

Perhaps Ben is stil using a single button mouse

As far as I read you are completly wrong. If I read it correctly Ben was in fact more motivated to find a solution and Chris had some serious arguments, that were based in the internal handling. The problem with the internal handling si probably exactly the lack of mouse wheels in earlier Macs, but you shouldn't try to blame this lack on certain programmers. While current Macs do not really have a scroll wheeel they have a scroll functionality, although it works un the opposite direction of the windows interface (although you can switch it in the preferences).

But this change in behaviour doesn't rewrite program functions that were developed at a different time and probably by Austin, not Ben.  If programmers could look into the future many thinks would work differently.

Hi Longranger, I had based my remark on something I read a while back that indicated Austin didnt believe that the mousewheel was the 'correct' control to use as it had other functions.

 

    This reminded me of Steve Jobs view that two mice buttons would confuse.   There may be other reasons from a development standpoint but I wasnt thinking of that.

 

   BTW, I hate how in the mewer os the mac scrolls the way to match the ipad.  I turn all that off

Hi Longranger, I had based my remark on something I read a while back that indicated Austin didnt believe that the mousewheel was the 'correct' control to use as it had other functions.

 

I agree, Austib is/was no friend of the mouse wheel but we are no longer in a situation where X-Plane wa his personal child and he was the only person that determines what will happen within X-Plane. In theory he could try it, but this is not the way how such small companies work.There are more than enough voices that demand a mouse wheel manipulations that Ben and Chris would simply overrule their boss.But it is a totally different question how to implement suchn a feature that it would really work as people want. These problems are much harder. I hope that such a manipulation might be possible within X-Plane 11, but not earlier.

I'm pretty sure Laminar can get this done if enough people request it. Like Longranger suggested, it could be a while before we see this feature though.