They would have declared an emergency much earlier if they where low on fuel. The BA dual engine flameout was due to ice build up in cruise and long idle descent.

 

I have also read that it is possible fuel contamination, however in this case wouldn't signs of fuel contamination been picked up well into the flight?

Thanks for the updates Ró

 

This is why I wait for better information. This is Indonesia and Lion Air, so people are too quick to jump on the bashing band wagon. I could easily criticize nations where these people live as well but I won't. 
 

They would have declared an emergency much earlier if they where low on fuel. The BA dual engine flameout was due to ice build up in cruise and long idle descent.

 

I have also read that it is possible fuel contamination, however in this case wouldn't signs of fuel contamination been picked up well into the flight?

Thanks Rob, AVHerald is referencing Altimeter error but it is all speculation at this point.  Also interesting was AVHerald noted the approach was flown on an offset and they appear to be well off the centerline.  Not sure if that is just where they came to rest though.  Interesting discussions about this on some other sites...

They would have declared an emergency much earlier if they where low on fuel. The BA dual engine flameout was due to ice build up in cruise and long idle descent.

 

I have also read that it is possible fuel contamination, however in this case wouldn't signs of fuel contamination been picked up well into the flight?

 

Don't forget the Gimli Glider incident and that Tunisair ATR flights though, both those thought there was plenty in the tanks but were running on fumes.

 

Noticing the contamination earlier would depend, it could have been a smooth enough ride in which case the fuel wasn't likely to have been getting sloshed around and mixed up with the contaminante, so may have only happened once the fuel dropped to the critical level, in this case 300' above the ground on final... 

 

 

Thanks Rob, AVHerald is referencing Altimeter error but it is all speculation at this point.  Also interesting was AVHerald noted the approach was flown on an offset and they appear to be well off the centerline.  Not sure if that is just where they came to rest though.  Interesting discussions about this on some other sites...

Altimeter error? I think it was more that they were 100' low on profile at 1000', but that's nothing. They were off center AFAIK because the approach to runway 09 is a VOR approach and is slightly offset, but again, just going on the word or my colleagues here. The day was VMC all around, so 100; low on profile and slightly off center isn't really anything in the slightest to be worried about for the moment. Nice find on the info though.

 

Regards,

Ró.

Will be very interesting once the fdr/cvr gets released and we find out what really happened. can someone refresh my memory, the Schipol incident was due to a faulty RA causing the engines to roll back? Crew realised to late?

Will be very interesting once the fdr/cvr gets released and we find out what really happened. can someone refresh my memory, the Schipol incident was due to a faulty RA causing the engines to roll back? Crew realised to late?

This was a result of that accident I believe but you would have thought a brand new airframe would have had this addressed...

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2010/09/23/2010-23857/airworthiness-directives-the-boeing-company-model-737-600--700--700c--800-and--900-series-airplanes

 

ACTION

Notice Of Proposed Rulemaking (Nprm).

SUMMARY

We propose to adopt a new airworthiness directive (AD) for certain Model 737-600, -700, -700C, -800, and -900 series airplanes. This proposed AD would require inspecting for part numbers of the operational program software of the flight control computers, and doing corrective actions if necessary. This proposed AD results from reports of erroneous undetected output from a single radio altimeter channel, which resulted in premature autothrottle retard during approach. We are proposing this AD to detect and correct erroneous output from a radio altimeter channel, which could result in premature autothrottle landing flare retard and the loss of automatic speed control, and consequent loss of control of the airplane.

Will be very interesting once the fdr/cvr gets released and we find out what really happened. can someone refresh my memory, the Schipol incident was due to a faulty RA causing the engines to roll back? Crew realised to late?

Bingo. Read as if they were on the ground, Throttles moved themselves to idle, pilots didn't notice as they were in a steep descent anyway, aircraft stalled and crashed.

 

Regards,

Ró.

Will be very interesting once the fdr/cvr gets released and we find out what really happened. can someone refresh my memory, the Schipol incident was due to a faulty RA causing the engines to roll back? Crew realised to late?

 

You are correct, as Ró already mentioned. For more detail, you can find the report here: http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Rapport_TA_ENG_web.pdf

<p>See post 303,</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/512476-lionair-plane-down-bali-16.html">http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/512476-lionair-plane-down-bali-16.html</a></p>
 

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyberair-yssy.com%2FWADDALL.pdf&ei=H-tqUambDpbF4AOLioCICg&usg=AFQjCNHn951xGhK93ceLLpRSGhOST1PIAw&bvm=bv.45175338,d.dmg

You are correct, as Ró already mentioned. For more detail, you can find the report here: http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Rapport_TA_ENG_web.pdf

Thanks for the link, will have a read when I get home. Btw, just my opinion but a lot of garbage gets spouted on pprune, I know it is the same on many other websites however pprune seems to now be overrun by people that don't really know what they are talking about.

 

Apart from the Tech & military forums it has gone down hill badly.

Yes, it is 738 instead of 739. Although it sounds irritating as an Indonesian, I have to admit that pilot error is likely a dominant factor. the plane is 2 month old, and the airline received just about last month.

 

A pilot with 10.000 hour of experience, and has been proven 'clean' from alcohol and amphetamine or such.. landing miscalculation is the biggest possibility  to make thing worse, there had been a report of windshear. The pax said there were no signs of emergency, the cabin crew announced that they were about to land shortly, one of the survivor said the plane was descending normally after the PA. He didnt notice and feel any steep descent or nose-dive .

 

The voice cockpit and flight data recorder have been secured and  we should know what caused the crash. 

I agree about PPRUNE, It's either a 20,000 hour alcoholic ex skipper,or a FSX newbee. You have to sift thru the garbage.

It looks like post 303 has been redacted. I did find all the Jepp charts for WADD tho.

 

FSX Scenery for WADD,

http://qbyte.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/ngurah-rai-international-airport-scenery-for-fsx/

It's definitely an undershoot/ditching then, rather than an overshoot?

Yeah, so far it has been put down to windshear according to the flight crew

Then they're very lucky (or very skilled) that that plane is remarkably intact!