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amir737

New haswell build

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Hello ,

I want to buy a new I7 4770K Build for FSX , I have a couple of questions .

My budget is around 1500 USD when no GPU included (I am going to use my brand new GTX 570 (I know its old and so but I have him only 2 months ...) a new GTX 770 is more 550-620 USD which my budget doesnt have...

 

Lets start :

 

1. Is the NHD14 Is better then the H100i for cooling the 4770k ?

2. Is a samsung 840 PRO is a must ? or i can stick with the normal 840...(its 120 USD difference where I am living at)

3. Do I really have to upgrade my GPU to for a GTX 770 ? PCIE3 and etc..(I have my GTX570 only 2 months it is new (warranty change from a preview is a burned GTX480)..

 

Thank you very much !

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If you have only a single monitor  no more than 24" one, then your GTX570 should be fine

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If you have only a single monitor  no more than 24" one, then your GTX570 should be fine

yep ,

I have 24' samsung and only one monitor...

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Is the NHD14 Is better then the H100i for cooling the 4770k ?

 

Not sure for the 4770K, but I doubt it would be different to the 3770K. This will be helpful...

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,13.html

 

As you can see, the H100i, achieves 75 degrees set to it's maximum and noisy fan RPM.

 

While the NH-D14 achieves 72 degrees, and is much quieter.

 

Noise levels here...

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,11.html

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I just put together a 4770K system myself and even with Euro Ripoff Prices™,  it was less than $1,000, though I kept some parts from my old system (SSD, HDD, video card).

 

1. Closed-loop water cooling and high performance air cooling are pretty similar in terms of noise and performance. To really benefit from water cooling, you need a custom built system. Water cooling held a greater advantage before air coolers started using heat pipes. I went with the Phanteks PH-TC14PE. The Noctua is similar, maybe a few degrees higher:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Phanteks/PH-TC14PE/6.html

 

2. When it comes to SSD's, even the slowest ones are massively faster than even the fastest 10,000 RPM hard drive. Therefore, when buying an SSD, I always go with the highest capacity drive for the price. You won't notice the difference between a fast and a slow SSD, but you will notice when your 120GB SSD gets full, where as a 250GB model would still have 130GB free...

 

3. If all you play is FSX/P3D, the GTX 570 is totally overkill. Unlike modern games, FS does not offload a lot of work to the GPU. Almost everything is done by the CPU. Even with my 4770K overclocked to 4.3 GHz and a GTX 460, I'm actually CPU limited - I can tell, because there's absolutely no performance difference when changing the resolution or going from no anti-aliasing to 16XS AA.

With other, modern games, there might be some benefit, but I would try them with the current GPU first. Remember that new GPUs are coming out every year, so if you can hold off for a year, something much faster and more advanced than the GTX 770 will come out for the same price.

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Not sure for the 4770K, but I doubt it would be different to the 3770K. This will be helpful...

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,13.html

 

As you can see, the H100i, achieves 75 degrees set to it's maximum and noisy fan RPM.

 

While the NH-D14 achieves 72 degrees, and is much quieter.

 

Noise levels here...

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,11.html

 

I have seen it aleardy.. the question is if its the same with the 4770K... from what I have been told, in the bencmarks it is but I am not sure...

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o.k I see..

What about the following ? seems o.k ? (GPU- GTX570 OC) :
 

 
Intel Core i7 4770K Haswell 3.5Ghz 8MB L3 Cache s1150
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler
Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H LGA1150, Intel Z87, DDR3 1600 
Corsair 2x4GB DDR3 1600Mhz Vengeance Blue Dual Channel CL9-9-9-24  
Seagate 1TB Barracuda 7200RPM 64MB Sata III ST1000DM003 
Samsung 840 Series 2.5'' 250GB SSD SATA III 
LG DVD±RW GH24NS x24 Black SATA OEM 
Corsair TX650M 650W Modular Active PFC 14cm Fan 
Antec Eleven Hundred The Advanced Gaming Authority Case No PSU 

is a thermal paste changing will add something ?
I mean changing the original Intel thermal paste even before the first use...
 
price 1550 $ (I am not from the u.s , prices are higher..)

Thank you very much for the kind help !

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3. If all you play is FSX/P3D, the GTX 570 is totally overkill.

 

I'm not so sure about that statement Jimmi.

 

I went from a GTX580 to a GTX680... and I saw a significant improvement in IQ and some fps (increasing autogen too).  And I will say "visions of a Titan dance in my head".

 

I am running a pair of Samsung 830s and am quite happy with those.  Like you say... drive space important.  Both are 256GB and my C: drive running a little short (because I have a lot of FRAPS recordings on there... I could move tho).  The D: FSX drive is 133 used / 104 free and that with most Orbx areas (just one airport) and some other sceneries.... also many planes.  Also, having an older style "platter" drive... a large one... is nice for backing up stuff.

 

Martin mentions fan noise on the H100i... I can't say I have ever heard the H100 fans (but I do have a pair of Zalmons closer to me that are quite noisy).  That said - tempting to have a NH-D14 as one has to only be concerned with fan failure (rare) compared to the pump failing on the Corsair units (which I haven't had "yet").

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The Beauty of the H100i is the software that it comes with. The software will control the fan speed automatically once you set your temperature profiles. My 2600K OC'd @ 4.8Ghz never goes above 70c, which means my fans never go full speed, and I can hardly hear them.

 

Diego

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3. If all you play is FSX/P3D, the GTX 570 is totally overkill. Unlike modern games, FS does not offload a lot of work to the GPU. 

 

Gotta totally disagree with this (a few months ago when I didn't know better I would have agreed though).  As soon as you start using NI to set set high levels of AA the GPU usage shoots up noticeably.  Even in stock scenery if I put bufferpools to 0 on my old i7-860 cpu and set frames to unlimited and run REX weather with a good amount of clouds (just real weather with storms in the area) with just 4xS AA and 2xSGSS in DX9 mode I could make my gpu usage shoot to 99% in default scenery around KSAC which is not scenery heavy at all.  Even using bufferpools it's way up there with unlimited FPS.  Granted this is on a GTX560 Ti but it shows that a modern GPU can be taxed with the right settings while running FSX.

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1. Closed-loop water cooling and high performance air cooling are pretty similar in terms of noise and performance. To really benefit from water cooling, you need a custom built system. Water cooling held a greater advantage before air coolers started using heat pipes. I went with the Phanteks PH-TC14PE. The Noctua is similar, maybe a few degrees higher:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Phanteks/PH-TC14PE/6.html

 

2. When it comes to SSD's, even the slowest ones are massively faster than even the fastest 10,000 RPM hard drive. Therefore, when buying an SSD, I always go with the highest capacity drive for the price. You won't notice the difference between a fast and a slow SSD, but you will notice when your 120GB SSD gets full, where as a 250GB model would still have 130GB free...

 

3. If all you play is FSX/P3D, the GTX 570 is totally overkill. Unlike modern games, FS does not offload a lot of work to the GPU. Almost everything is done by the CPU. Even with my 4770K overclocked to 4.3 GHz and a GTX 460, I'm actually CPU limited - I can tell, because there's absolutely no performance difference when changing the resolution or going from no anti-aliasing to 16XS AA.

With other, modern games, there might be some benefit, but I would try them with the current GPU first. Remember that new GPUs are coming out every year, so if you can hold off for a year, something much faster and more advanced than the GTX 770 will come out for the same price.

 

GTX 460 is to weak for fsx if you want high performance with high quality addons and good graphics - for example NGX+ORBX+FSDT+UTX+GEX+REX+AS2012...

 Even Titan has a big FPS drop in REX HD clouds. So, 570 can't be a overkill. Actually, at least GTX580 is recommended... If not 580, then 680 or higher from series 6

@amir737, you will be fine with GTX570

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Its just a budget problem to upgrade my gpu right now... I will upgrade in the future to high end series.. I am not expecting top gpu performance , I just want to make sure that the performance will be "fine" , and that I wont get bottleneck..

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I will suggested to try to fine a sandybridge if you can. Here is why:

 

  1. Yes 10-20 % slower clock for clock, but with much higher overclocking potential

 

  2. It is a more robust part it will last you longer (more bank for your buck)

 

  3. Don't have to delind (ivy or haswell), so you will still keep your warranty

 

   4. The scaling of the new intel trigate transistor so far is showing that is not scaling that well and also creating a lot of heat issues

 

   5. We all want to see our hobby cont. , but the reality is more advance hardware wont make FSX run that much better (maybe incrementally better at most-not worth it in my opinion)

 

    P.S. Hopefully X-10 will let us use more of our modern hardware more effectible...... Just my two cents!!!!

 

 

     Anyway best of luck with your upgrade!!!!

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IMO, Do not go for a Sandy Bridge unless you get a real $$$ savings for the CPU and MB etc

 

I remember this same argument when IB came out.

 

If I were to build a new PC today..I would go for a Haswell unless some can prove to me clock for clock Haswell is slower than IB (let alone SB)

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Sir I'm not saying Sandy is faster than Ivy or haswell. Just it is not worth. it IPC is faster with haswell, it just not that great and it can easily compensated with sandy overclock potential (Fact).Also a solder part will keep cooler so it translate to a part that will last longer. FSX is respectfully a dead horse and putting more hardware power to try to solve the problem is has shown not to be the answer. New hardware (CPU mostly) yield are marginal (FACT). Their will be more potential with GPU, but again we have to wait for a new platform.

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Just it is not worth. i

 

If you have a SB already, then I agree, its not worth moving to an IB or even Haswell probably. But if you don't have any of these and you are going to build a new PC, might as well go with the latest.

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Gotta totally disagree with this (a few months ago when I didn't know better I would have agreed though).  As soon as you start using NI to set set high levels of AA the GPU usage shoots up noticeably.  Even in stock scenery if I put bufferpools to 0 on my old i7-860 cpu and set frames to unlimited and run REX weather with a good amount of clouds (just real weather with storms in the area) with just 4xS AA and 2xSGSS in DX9 mode I could make my gpu usage shoot to 99% in default scenery around KSAC which is not scenery heavy at all.  Even using bufferpools it's way up there with unlimited FPS.  Granted this is on a GTX560 Ti but it shows that a modern GPU can be taxed with the right settings while running FSX.

 

GPU usage is another matter entirely. Even the simplest game can push indicated GPU usage to 100% if you run it at Unlimited FPS.

 

Default scenery will push the GPU *harder* than OrbX scenery, because the CPU isn't bogged down by the excessive Autogen. "Flow" etc. (the whole FSX terrain compositing engine runs entirely off the CPU) so it can just keep pumping frames to the GPU.

 

If you really want to push your GPU, you should fly somewhere flat, with FPS at Unlimited and Autogen turned off. Usepools = 0 will increase GPU usage even more (while also improving FPS), since you're removing one more step for the CPU to do before it hands over to the GPU. The proper way to set up FSX is FPS limit @ 30 FPS, Usepools = 0. This will lower GPU usage and improve performance by balancing everything out.

 

 

GTX 460 is to weak for fsx if you want high performance with high quality addons and good graphics - for example NGX+ORBX+FSDT+UTX+GEX+REX+AS2012...

 Even Titan has a big FPS drop in REX HD clouds. So, 570 can't be a overkill. Actually, at least GTX580 is recommended... If not 580, then 680 or higher from series 6


@@amir737, you will be fine with GTX570

 

 

That just isn't true. No matter how much we want FSX to take advantage of newer technologies, it just doesn't take advantage of any of the extra shading, pixel pushing or geometry processing power of newer GPUs;

 

-When I upgraded from a Phenom II to i7 4770K, I got a massive FPS boost. Same video card. The scaling is almost perfect, relative to CPU performance. This wouldn't be possible if the GPU was holding me back.

 

-No drop from using REX clouds instead of default. None.

 

-Already use most of the above mentioned add-ons, with great FPS.

 

-Again, going from 1024x768 no AA to 1680x1050 16XS AA caused absolutely no performance hit. If the GPU was a limiting factor, there would be a frame rate drop.

 

-I will upgrade my video card next month, for other games. With FSX/P3D, I'm not expecting any difference at all but I will be the first to admit I was wrong if that turns out to be the case.

 

The only thing that might cause issues is running out of video RAM. If you run out of VRAM, performance will absolutely tank, since the GPU has to use your system RAM which is infinitely slower than video RAM. So at higher resolutions you need more VRAM. 1GB may not be enough for a 27" display at native resolution.

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Sandy is better quality and has a longer life expentansy. With Ivy and haswell if you want to hit 4.8 Ghz and 4.5 Ghz you need good colling witch I know isn't a problem, but TIM will degradate faster any way. Sandy is a "could be cheaper" (due to the difficulty of finding one now days) and it will last longer. Again yielding almost as close performance when overclocked.

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Today I have a fried oc i7 930 to 3.8 ghz... I experience problems with this one which means I need to reduce the oc (max temp with prime 95 is around 92)... I have it something like 3 years.

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Phenom II to Haswell of course it will make things better. My ultimate point here  is the quality of the part (last longer) and yield you get out of it. It is just a little behind (not much) but overclocking potential will make the IPC argument almost mute, again alsmost because I know Haswell IPC are a little faster (again only marginally), but the part itself will last less due to the TIM Intel used.


I'm just saying what I said so I can help (advice) you in a honest way, not in a fanatical way. Their is no need to keep up the jone's. My other advice will be wait until Ivybridge -E, it could still be a solder part.

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Sandy is better quality and has a longer life expentansy. With Ivy and haswell if you want to hit 4.8 Ghz and 4.5 Ghz you need good colling witch I know isn't a problem, but TIM will degradate faster any way. Sandy is a "could be cheaper" (due to the difficulty of finding one now days) and it will last longer. Again yielding almost as close performance when overclocked.

IB its a tuffer CPU , not degrade as fast as SB more tolerant to high voltage stronger IMC

My 3770 @5ghz is faster than My 2700k @5.4

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You sir don't know what your talking about. I guess you already delind it, so you know it has TIM that by it self tells you it will degrade faster, needless to say the head out put is greater due to the die size. Also having to delind it and give away my warranty...... Oh and also Voltage handling is not that great either if not wont you think the heat issue wont be present ? 

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@JimmiG, obviously we're talking about different things. 

it's not about higher fps, it's about performance hit. If you set profile in nvidia inspector to get really good graphics and then go and fly in bad weather, using REX clouds, AS2012 weather and NGX at high quality payware airport. FPS hit will be massive.  

Of course, we can use other settings in nvidia inspector and there will be no FPS drop. But i allways try to get maximum from FSX

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