Well it would make sense tbh, EU harmonisation of airspace classes has made things a lot easier for touring. Seems crazy having all these different formats, I have to admit I like the British one the best but I am somewhat biased :lol:

Well it would make sense tbh, EU harmonisation of airspace classes has made things a lot easier for touring. Seems crazy having all these different formats, I have to admit I like the British one the best but I am somewhat biased :lol:

 

Pilots seemed to have coped for decades so far without harmonisation. How often they actually need to view these charts is unknown but I suspect they rely on the CDU with only occasional viewings necessary.

 

Let's hope they choose the UK format but something tells me they won't. BTW, whereabouts in the world are you? A location would be appreciated. :wink:

Airspace classes tend not to affect airline pilots, because they're almost always in controlled airspace (and usually getting a radar control service too); where it comes in to play is touring across countries in General Aviation (GA) aircraft, as they are likely to pass through all sorts of different airspaces at lower levels, especially since those GA pilots are generally not as experienced or trained as commercial pilots and have less technological assistance. GA tends to make up a disproportionate amount of airprox, level bursts, airspace infringements etc - pilots do cope but not without quite a few making mistakes, so anything to make life easier for them is a boon!

If European charts do get harmonised (I'm not aware of any moves in the direction at the moment but it's probably on EASA's cards), the main benefit will probably be for GA pilots who are less likely to subscribe to chart services like Jeppesen. And chart providers themselves, since they'll have less formats to contend with they're less likely to make transcription errors.

Airline pilots still use printed charts (unless they're lucky enough to have an EFB) and they are still the authoritative source on routing and restrictions (other than ATC), such charts will be referred in the pre-flight and clearance briefings. Once underway reference is generally to the EHSI/ND/GNS moving map (if so equipped, unless RNAV is required it's not actually necessary and SIDs/STARs can be flown entirely by hand) but the pilots will ensure what's in the MCDU matches what's on the paper in front of them.

I'm sort of omnipresent as I have family scattered around the globe :lol: but I probably have the strongest ties to the United Kingdom (I base this on the fact I can quote Monty Python...)

Chris,

 

Thanks for the background and your thoughts. Interesting you mention Jeppesen. A close friend who bought FliteStar several years ago was quoted a huge price for an update. He declined.

 

The move to electronic aids will continue and eventually paper may well disappear from cockpits of all types. Given the cost of an iPad and the ability for info to be updated almost instantaneously it just seems inevitable.

 

If you can quote Monty Python that definitely has you down as a honorary Brit! :wink:

To be honest, I like German style more than UK one. Actually I would like mix of German and UK style because UK charts are so nicely colored.

 

I have to say French and Italian styles are absolutely horrendous, while Spain, Austrian, Serbian are just fine.

The German ones are very clear. The lack of colour helps. If you use colour it has to be sparing and the UK ones get the balance just right.

 

The UK Pound had a bad day against the Euro yesterday which is making my decision even more difficult. The offer runs out on Sunday. Quite why they have to close it so quickly is not obvious to me. I don't like being pressurised like that.

The offer runs out on Sunday. Quite why they have to close it so quickly is not obvious to me. I don't like being pressurised like that.

Marketing reasons presumably. Make it sound like something is a limited quantity and people need to decide quickly and they are more likely to buy.

I bought the sub simply because the convenience and time saved has value to me as I'm time poor, having plenty of add on scenery means I have lots of charts so very handy to update or download everything with a simple right click.

Marketing reasons presumably. Make it sound like something is a limited quantity and people need to decide quickly and they are more likely to buy.

 

It could rebound on them. Mid-summer in the northern hemisphere is not peak flying time for many which is why you get a lot of offers. But it's hardly like you have a limited number of something physical to sell. I don't see a huge amount of discussion on their website and some questions have been answered quite slowly.

 

Just a gut feeling but I don't think it's been a big seller.

<p>Could be cashflow, even if they don't have physical stock to shift, they'll have sales predictions/targets <em>and</em> bills to pay.<br />

<br />

Steam works on an extreme example of what Navigraph are doing; charge a normal price most of the year to catch regular customers and those unprepared to wait, then a heavily discounted price for a short period to grab those who wouldn't buy at the usual price. Effectively it's a form of price discrimination so they can maximise their revenues.</p>

Could be cashflow, even if they don't have physical stock to shift, they'll have sales predictions/targets and bills to pay.

 

Steam works on an extreme example of what Navigraph are doing; charge a normal price most of the year to catch regular customers and those unprepared to wait, then a heavily discounted price for a short period to grab those who wouldn't buy at the usual price.

 

Yes, I accept that but there's another factor outside anyone's control - exchange rates. And it's bad for those in the UK and not much better for US users.

 

There's no doubt there is a huge discount but how many of those airports would people actually fly in to / out of as there will only be default scenery.

 

I would rather see a discount price for individual airports so I could bring my collection up-to-date for a lesser price than normal. Sadly that isn't happening and the alternative it to shell out a substantial amount mainly for airports I will never fly into.

And hence they have you by the danglies! We might not like it, but it's good business sense.

And hence they have you by the danglies! We might not like it, but it's good business sense.

 

:biggrin: Not necessarily. I do have a third option. Do nothing. And as things stand that is the most likely. Using out of date charts is only a problem when either the scenery doesn't match or SIDs and STARs in my FMC don't.

 

Theirs is a calculated risk. It may work, it may not. Only they will know.