As this isn't related directly to any version of flight sim I hope this is the best place to discuss it.

 

Navigraph are offering a 12-month subscription to all their airport charts (not including FMS data) for an annual subscription of 59.90 Euros with a 10 Euro discount for existing customers if they buy before 23 June.

 

If I were to buy the 1916 airport charts I don't currently have it would cost 585.60 Euros so on the face of it it looks to be a very good deal.

 

But having read the small print there is one rule which makes it less attractive.

 

While subscribed, you cannot select multiple airports for download within Navigraph Charts. You will have to click then one by one as you need them. This is to maintain bandwidth for all users during the release of new revisions.

 

That is a lot of work to download them all. I can understand limiting bandwidth but they could restrict it to batches of 10.

 

I'm still mulling over whether to go for this or not. You can still use the charts after the 12 months subscription has ended but of course many will be out of date.

 

I'd be interested in hearing the views of others who are considering this offer. You can read all the T&Cs here.

http://www.navigraph.com/ViewNews.aspx?newsId=18

 

I do not understand why would you buy something already provided for free by other, real world, suppliers?

I do not understand why would you buy something already provided for free by other, real world, suppliers?

 

I know many European airport charts are available free but the design of the charts is not particularly clear and it would take a lot of time and effort to download them. And then you don't have any organisation to them. Just hundreds of charts with no search facility.

 

Where else can I find free charts for Asia, Australasia, South America, North America and Africa that have the convenience of the Navigraph offer?

 

 

I do not understand why would you buy something already provided for free by other, real world, suppliers?

 

 

I know many European airport charts are available free but the design of the charts is not particularly clear and it would take a lot of time and effort to download them. And then you don't have any organisation to them. Just hundreds of charts with no search facility.

 

Where else can I find free charts for Asia, Australasia, South America, North America and Africa that have the convenience of the Navigraph offer?

www.aircharts.org for the US, and maybe Canada and Australia as well. I agree with you when it comes to South America,Asia and Africa though.

You can try with google, or vatsim division sites, usually there are charts for region you want to fly. For example, central Africa vatsim division charts library here:

http://www.vatcaf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=38

 

You may not agree, but I think it's waste of money to buy complete set of charts from navgraph. Maybe if you do not find set of charts anywhere else, you can try with navgraph. I would use that money for iPad, and use free charts.

Gents,

 

I take your point that there are lots of free (donationware) charts out there but keeping them up to date and finding a particular chart quickly will be difficult.

 

Convenience comes at a cost and there's no doubt that the Navigraph charts are excellent and consistent in their look and feel. And you can find any chart very quickly with the search facility.

 

Having them available on an iPad would be the icing on the cake but if you can afford an iPad you can probably afford an annual Navigraph subscription.

 

I'm interested in anyone who is thinking of subscribing and what might deter them?

If I was to update all 29 of my airports that are currently out-of-date it would cost 12 Euros. And in a few months - certainly within a year - they would need updating once, possibly more.

 

So putting that 12 Euros towards the offer price reduces the purchase cost to 38 Euros. For that price you also get the video tutorials and enroute charts.

 

It's beginning to look more appealing.

Honestly, I've never seen the practicality of updating navigational data and charts to current conditions given that the underlying scenery and airport facilities are usually not updated at the same time. :unsure:

Both of these websites offer global coverage in one place for free:

• Charts.Aero
• AirCharts.Org

 

Unless you are regularly flying to/from countries not covered by these free services, what's the benefit of Navigraph's annual chart subscription service?

Honestly, I've never seen the practicality of updating navigational data and charts to current conditions given that the underlying scenery and airport facilities are usually not updated at the same time. :unsure:

 

But if you fly IFR and subscribe to the Navigraph FMS data as I do there's nothing more frustrating than SIDs and STARs in the FMC not showing up on the Navigraph charts because you haven't kept them up to date.

 

I accept that things like ILS and airport VORs etc. are fixed but there's plenty that changes on a regular basis.

Both of these websites offer global coverage in one place for free:

 

• Charts.Aero

• AirCharts.Org

 

Unless you are regularly flying to/from countries not covered by these free services, what's the benefit of Navigraph's annual chart subscription service?

 

Are they really free or do they ask for donations?

 

The attraction of the Navigraph service is you have everything for one airport all together in the software and it's easy to view different charts. FRom what I've seen of the free services you have to download multiple PDFs, organise them by airport and then search through looking for the relevant chart. That would be a major pain.

 

I want to fly to different parts of the world but am restrained because I don't have the airport charts. A single airport purchase is quite expensive compared to their worldwide offer for the price of a couple of major airports.

Are they really free or do they ask for donations? The attraction of the Navigraph service is you have everything for one airport all together in the software and it's easy to view different charts. FRom what I've seen of the free services you have to download multiple PDFs, organise them by airport and then search through looking for the relevant chart. That would be a major pain.

They are free, there's not even any adverts on them at the moment, they don't ask for donations (I don't see how that stops them from being free anyway tbh) and you don't need to register, so why not just try them out now? You have literally nothing to lose, other than a couple of minutes.

 

Charts.aero you just type in an ICAO and you get thumbnails and descriptions of all charts for that airport, you click the ones you want to view and it loads them, and they're always up to date. AirCharts.org gives you a file tree structure, but still filters by airport ICAO nicely.

 

Unless Navigraph will let you print off all the charts for a specific aerodrome with a single click, I don't see any advantage to their package at all, other than making you poorer! The free site coverage is pretty good if you combine Charts.aero and AirCharts.org (Charts > Coverage) on menu. if you fly to many airports in Canada, China, India and some South American and Middle Eastern countries that aren't covered  by those two freebies, then Navigraph might make more sense .

They are free, there's not even any adverts on them at the moment, they don't ask for donations (not that I see that makes any difference to them being free tbh), so why not just try them out now?

 

Charts.aero you just type in an ICAO and you get thumbnails and descriptions of all charts for that airport, any you want to look at you just click on and it loads them, and they're always up to date. AirCharts.org gives you a file tree structure.

 

Unless Navigraph will let you print off all the charts for a specific aerodrome with a single click, I don't see any advantage to their package at all, other than making you poorer! The free site coverage is pretty good if you combine Charts.aero and AirCharts.org (Charts > Coverage) on menu.

 

These sites usually rely on some form of income to pay for the server space and bandwidth. So unless someone is giving them a free service eventually it could just disappear.

 

I use donationware weather station software and the author relies on users donating something to cover costs and to allow him to buy better programming software so he can improve the program. I've donated more than once and am happy to do it. I'd be amazed if these chart sites can continue to provide a free service.

 

But the main issue still remains. You have to download lots of charts to get the complete picture for an airport and then keep yourself organised so you can refer back to them. I just think the Navigraph service offers more and is more convenient. But, it's not cheap so I'm biding my time.

 

I don't print anything. If you haven't used the Navigraph service you probably don't know how it works anyway but the software to view everything for an airport is excellent. A few mouse clicks and you can bring up the charts for any airport in the FS world.

Regarding download of multiple charts - the new client works in such a way as to download on demand via the chart interface rather than the old download interface if you have a subscription - it looks like you have all available charts and is color coded; if you don't have a subscription, it will color code your existing chart display to show you what is out of date so that you can go download it in the traditional way.  If you only update airports and en-route charts infrequently, then save your money.  On the other hand if you have to have every new cycle of both then it's probably worth while.

 

DJ

Unless someone is giving them a free service eventually it could just disappear... I've donated more than once and am happy to do it. I'd be amazed if these chart sites can continue to provide a free service.

Ray, you originally asked if it was worth paying for Navigraph, I am only trying to save you money by giving you alternatives to consider, but it's almost like you want to pay! I don't see the problem if the free website disappears tomorrow, you can just buy the Navigraph package then. Equally, Navigraph could just disappear tomorrow, and worse still, they'd take your money with them!

You have to download lots of charts to get the complete picture for an airport and then keep yourself organised so you can refer back to them. I just think the Navigraph service offers more and is more convenient.

Why do you want to download charts and organise them in to folders, just pull them from the cloud where they're already nicely organised and that way they're always up to date too?

If you haven't used the Navigraph service you probably don't know how it works anyway but the software to view everything for an airport is excellent. A few mouse clicks and you can bring up the charts for any airport in the FS world.

The free services I've mentioned are more convenient than Navigraph, I can get any chart I want on charts.aero within 3 clicks (including launching my browser)! And they're nicely organised, I just pop the ICAO in their home page. There's no need to register or download/install software.

 

Why do you keep making excuses to not even try the free sites I suggested? You seem set on Navigraph's package and unwilling to consider any alternatives, so why not just pay them? It obviously does everything you want.

 

 

The free site coverage is pretty good if you combine Charts.aero and AirCharts.org (Charts > Coverage) on menu. if you flew to many airports in Canada, China, India and some South American and Middle Eastern countries that aren't covered for free, then Navigraph might make more sense .

 

I entered FALE on both hoping to find King Shaka International in Durban, RSA. Neither found it but bizarrely Charts.Aero suggested Bob Faler, Elk City! Hmmm.

 

I'm surprised at the lack of support for Navigraph. Many people seem happy to spend lots of aircraft, scenery etc. but baulk at a service like this because there is a free alternative albeit quite an inconvenient one. Oh well, each to their own.