Well, looks like I'll have to get the DF too now. The 727 is my all time favorite aircraft. I have finally learned to manage the speed on my CS 727 with ease and nail every landing and now switching again...Anyone remember Everardo Diaz's 727 for FS98? Possibly the best 727 model before Erick Cantu/Vistaliners. Also had fantastic flight dynamics. From what I'm hearing here the DF version has similar behaviour, i.e. once trimmed you can finetune your approach using throttles only. This is one department where the CS lacked badly. Misha

DF 727:1. Better Model.2. Better Panel.3. Better VC.4. Better sounds. 5. Better Flight Dynamics.6. Better Support.CS 727:1. An invisible support network.Verdict:Buy the CS 727.Invisibility is a powerful tool if you ever decide to fight crime.

>DF has never tried to repackage their 727 panel as a 707>panel...complete with a 3-engine overhead panel.Good grief!! Did they do that? Ours will certainly have 4 engine starters on it :-)Seriously, thanks for the votes of confidence Bob, and everyone else it seems, the whole team really do appreciate it.http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

<> Well, last time i used, my CS 707 had 4 (four) starter switchs in the overhead?..whats all this?...I've had the CS 727 for a long time now, really the FDE needed tweaking which i did myself, also i did many repaints and i WAS ready to buy the DF 727 which i wont do now...one thing is pushing the envelope, improving an already good bird (with flaws like im sure DF 727 has too by the way) and that way to keep our hobby getting better and better thanks to very talented people...but another different thing is to step over a product that has been praised on this site's reviews, forums everywhere and suddenly is worth a s*it, even using lies like the 3-engine overhead panel on the 707..Personally, i'll be way more cautious not only with the actual product i'll be buying, but also to what kind of people my hard-earned cash will go...Maybe is time to go back to basics, awesome freeware to have fun in this game...Yeah! of course i remember the Everardo Diaz's awesome 727! thanks for the memories!..that was the first FS aircraft that at least i saw with a steerable nosewheel..it was so cool!..now we have Erick and all of his marvelous contributions just for the love of the hobby..would be great that Everardo shows up one of these days too!Oh this is my first post here, but been a visitor for very long time, specially looking for tips and opinions from some great individuals, just as an example Mr John Cillis, hes helped me very much without knowing lol...so thanks Mr Cillis, im also enjoying a lot your Eclipse bizjet, great work!Happy HollidaysCarlos Acosta

>Yeah! of course i remember the Everardo Diaz's awesome 727!>thanks for the memories!..that was the first FS aircraft that>at least i saw with a steerable nosewheel..it was so>cool!..now we have Erick and all of his marvelous>contributions just for the love of the hobby..would be great>that Everardo shows up one of these days too!Not only that, but Everardo's 727 was for a long time the only 727 that had the correct animation of the slat extension sequence (until CS!). And I share your irritation at the tone of what people are saying about the CS 727. IMHO it still has a few advantages (one of which is the superb external textures). I tweaked my CS 727 too and never had trouble with it. Misha

Carlos Acosta and Misha let's set the record straight once and for all....First of all no one is stating the CS727 wasn't a great add-on, it was just the only game in town for a long time. I actually still prefer the 'Checked and Set' feature... All the issues that's being brought up here have always been a concern but CaptainSim never bothered to fully address them. I've personally complained about the VC not being fully clickable and the FDE having issues, CS never addressed that. Others have commented on issues where CS has stated wasn't possible in Flight Simulator. Now we see many things are possible that CaptainSim refused to address. All this backlash is no body's fault but CaptainSim. Instead of finishing the great product they had, they chose to move on to develop the 707 and C-130. PSS is doing the same thing with the A320 series. You can bet money that when another developer designs an A320 on the level of PMDG's 737NG and DreamFleet's 727, PSS's name will get mentioned as well concerning all the issues they neglected/refused to address... Dropping the ball on support and basically telling your customers to go play with themselves concerning issues that need to be address deserves this kind of backlash. Now we can say, 'See CaptianSim all the things you said weren't possible is possible... Things that you refused to address are now addressed'. The DreamFleet 727 has been in development for about as long as the CaptainSim model (pre-release and post release). I remember it was not longer than two months after CaptainSim released theirs, Dreamfleet anounced theirs (heck maybe it was before because CS seemed to beat DF to the punch)... This means the DF727 was in the works back in the days of FS2k2. In that time CS has updated their 727 for FS2k4 and actually did a decent job (much better than the effort PSS gave us with the A320). All most users were asking for for the most part was more work done to the FDE. I wanted a fully clickable VC. How hard would it have been for CaptainSim to listen to their customers and just develop those basic things. They decided not to and here you have the results Carlos.Why take up for a company that drops support for a product that many people are still using. The DF727 is like a breath of fresh air... It bothers me how some take the attitude (developers included) you have taken Carlos. I've had my run in with developers as well about product improvements. Anytime I've shelled out my hard earned money for something, I would like to see a product go the distance. Me and Lou have had a falling out about the Flight1 152 (2D panel, VC night lighting, etc.), same goes for Jim Rhoads about the C172's vc light issues (which they fixed by the way, guess you can tell I'm a VC fan but don't get me wrong I don't put VC updates over FDE issues. The plane most importantly should fly correctly and that's the problem the CS727 has always had. Users should not be the ones fixing issues with a payware product, I tried that with the Altitude Concord sound set but when I tried to share my updates with everyone else I ran into problems. When you pay for a product it's copywritten meaning you may have found a sweet spot with the FDE with your tweeks but what about the rest of us, you can't release your updates to the public without copywrite infringement. Now how is YOUR updates going to benefit anyone???). Getting back to the point, some developers fix issues others don't. To the one's that don't these are the kinds of comments/threads/post developers open themselves up to. If you want to talk about Freeware Carlos, no one can complain about something given away free of charge so that

Well that had me hit the delete button on my response to Carlos! And probably for the best too :)http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

Not trying to start a fight here Paul, just stating the frustration that's been around with many for awhile concerning the 727. You guys have put all that to rest with this release. I may sound a little harsh and I apologize for that but this issue has frustrated me over the years as well... :-)

What are you on about? Loads of soundsets for engine at the rear aircraft are like that. I know mine all are (with the excepotion of the DC-9-10/20/30/40/50 because you very definitely CAN hear the engines in the early DC-9 cockpit).As for which to get it depends on what you're looking for. CS has the more accurate visual model in most places, but their nose is poo (Whilst DF's looks OK), their FDE is worse, the sounds...don't get me started, and though I've never had problems most seem to have support issues. CS's model also has a few texture mapping issues I doubt Paul's has.As I understand it the DF panel is a lot more readable as well. I'll be buying it sometime this week to give a more definitive comparison since I own the CS727 already. Expect a pictoral sometime next week maybe? :-hah

I agree with your view on the external models. Seems to me DF panel, sounds and FDE with your external model is the ultimate combo. :-cool Particularly for people who don't have high end machines.Misha.

><engine starters on it>> Well, last time i used, my CS 707 had>4 (four) starter switchs in the overhead?..whats all>this?...I've had the CS 727 for a long time now, really the>FDE needed tweaking which i did myself, also i did many>repaints and i WAS ready to buy the DF 727 which i wont do>now...one thing is pushing the envelope, improving an already>good bird (with flaws like im sure DF 727 has too by the way)>and that way to keep our hobby getting better and better>thanks to very talented people...but another different thing>is to step over a product that has been praised on this site's>reviews, forums everywhere and suddenly is worth a s*it, even>using lies like the 3-engine overhead panel on the>707..Personally, i'll be way more cautious not only with the>actual product i'll be buying, but also to what kind of people>my hard-earned cash will go...Maybe is time to go back to>basics, awesome freeware to have fun in this game...My objective was not to convince you to buy the DF727. I have no affiliation with them. A legitimate question was asked for a comparison between the two, and that's what I offered. IMHO, the Captain Sim 727 has been summarily outclassed. And in the process, the DreamFleet product has (to the benefit of the community) put to bed the myth that things like working EPR gauges and accurate flight dynamics are just not possible in FS9. Sorry if that offends (OK, well, not really)Carlos, maybe you showed up after CS fixed the overhead view with three engine start switches (present in at least one of the VCs, as I recall seeing pix of same). The CS 707 also greeted you with a "welcome to this Boeing 727" flight attendant audio...and the ground crew would even talk you through a 3-engine start sequence. You can read the threads referenced below with some other references to these publicly documented problems (not "lies").http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=search>Oh this is my first post here, but been a visitor for very>long time, specially looking for tips and opinions from some>great individuals, ////snip////Well....then thanks for all your...ummmm...contributions??!!??RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Washington, DC

>Invisibility is a powerful tool if you ever decide to fight>crime.And that wins my vote for quote of the week!!:-hah Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Washington, DC

I feel i must say something here, many people are dissing the Capt Sim 727 and the PSS A320, both of these planes where made in the early days of FS2002 so to expect them to have all the features of new models is a bit unfair. that said i have no doubt that the DF 727 is the superior version, i will not be getting it, not because there is anything wrong with it but I allready have a 727 fitted with a weather radar and can't justify buying another when i could use the money to get the DF A36 and/or the comming FSD planes.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/100611.jpgHad the DF 727 been around when i go the CS 727 i would most probably have gone for that instead.

Owning both I would have to say DF.

Josh,You hit the nail on the head 100%. Support is everything. That's one of the reasons why, as a consumer I'm avoiding the new LDS 76 sim like the plague. Word I'm hearing is that DF really stands behind its products. That, along with the great feedback on the high level of quality in just about every aspect of this sim. . .I'm picking up a copy of the DF as soon as possible.