More arrogance from J.V. over at ORBX

[Ripcord 12]

In another-life I worked product support for a few years - it's a tough way to earn a wage.

In this case, Mr. Venema did offer a very short explanation and suggest what additional product to look at in an entirely appropriate manner.

If the guy is unhappy enough to want his money back, then they should do that and just move on...

 

Well he closed your thread as well. He should not have done so, you went out of your way to be objective and even postive about it.  There is a problem, and the best way to deal with that is to engage it head on and find a solution -- even if that is a patch or a fix or whatever.  Now that does not mean he has to put up with garbage like the OP came with -- come on.

 

Noel went nuts, and he was wrong.  But also, read down the thread and see that other 'fellow' from Tasmania (I have other names for him) that decides it would be wise to make generalizations about Americans based on this one guys' post.  2 days later and I'd still like to bust him in the mouth for that.

 

JV is quite capable of admitting at times that he is wrong, that he has overreacted to some inane knucklehead.  He's a big boy, give him some credit.  I don't think I'd have locked those 2 threads, but geez, how much sleep you think those guys have gotten this week?  We can cut him some slack I think.

[flapsdown 45]

 

 

Well he closed your thread as well. He should not have done so, you went out of your way to be objective and even postive about it.

 

I must admit I was a bit disappointed that he did that without really offering at least a "yeah that's what OpenLC will fix for you" comment or the like, but I guess I was just assuming he was trying to consolidate the threads on the "green creep" subject, or maybe he just thinks I am an ill-informed jack-a$$ :Big Grin:

 

I saw the post from the Tasmanian guy - I guess the irony of making the exact same kind of generalizations he was complaining about was lost on him...

[GHarrall 494]

How is it, then, that when using default or GEX textures the Southwest U.S. desert textures are more realistic?

 

FTX Global changed a texture that is supposed to have a more brown-orange-red color.

 

The landclass hasn't changed here, the textures did.  So how can you conclude that it's a landclass problem?

 

You are the one who is uninformed.

 

You need to read this and then maybe understand.

 

http://www.simforums.com/forums/why-textures-repeat-in-fsx_topic44090.html

 

There are a limited number of textures worldwide that can be called. To make the green textures look more realistic in one part of the world causes the issue with the desert in the other. Take a look at default and GEX and see how even the northern European and US textures still have a yellow tinge to them and don't look right at all. Its a balancing act that cannot be fixed without a custom landclass. Its not difficult to grasp.

[Ripcord 12]

I must admit I was a bit disappointed that he did that without really offering at least a "yeah that's what OpenLC will fix for you" comment or the like, but I guess I was just assuming he was trying to consolidate the threads on the "green creep" subject, or maybe he just thinks I am an ill-informed jack-a$$ :Big Grin:

 

I saw the post from the Tasmanian guy - I guess the irony of making the exact same kind of generalizations he was complaining about was lost on him...

 

I think if your post had been the first on that subject, it might have resulted in reasonable discourse.  But it came about 3 minutes after Noels, and my gut feeling is that JV just thought you were piling on.

 

Wow, just read the other thread by deerhunter guy.  That guy is just precious.

 

I think John is now maybe regretting in some small way that he even released FTX Global textures without the full Open LC coverage.  He probably figured that most semi-serious flight simmers would graps the meaning and get it.  Most did, I suspect, but this thing got really big really fast, and the hype probably attracted some of the less avid simmers that did read it thru, and more than a couple redneck idiots that just got excited to see all the pretty colors and nifty screenshots.

[flapsdown 45]

I think John is now maybe regretting in some small way that he even released FTX Global textures without the full Open LC coverage.

 

I wonder about that as well - I consider myself at least reasonably well informed on FSX, and I was a bit surprised that after the installation, things were so weirdly "off" in the first areas I went to fly in - it had not occured to me that FSX was so poorly "land classed" that a palate shift from brown to green would have such far reaching effects - it almost seemed like I had just swapped one set of texture problems for another.

 

I guess it's pretty evident that FTX-G is a real improvement for a lot folks right "out of the box", so I am just one of those guys who is going to have to wait for OpenLC to bring the same improvements to the areas that I spend more time simming in when I am not flying in dedicated ORBX regions...

[dave2013 1,158]

You need to read this and then maybe understand.

 

http://www.simforums.com/forums/why-textures-repeat-in-fsx_topic44090.html

 

There are a limited number of textures worldwide that can be called. To make the green textures look more realistic in one part of the world causes the issue with the desert in the other. Take a look at default and GEX and see how even the northern European and US textures still have a yellow tinge to them and don't look right at all. Its a balancing act that cannot be fixed without a custom landclass. Its not difficult to grasp.

No, it's not difficult to grasp, but apparently you are having difficulty.

 

I know that the semi desert shrubs texture is called for other arid areas of the world.  The fact is that it *should* be colored more like a desert shrubland texture and less like a grassland one.  This applies for those other areas of the world as well.  There is a semi desert *sage* texture that is available and called in some areas that are a bit less arid. *This* is the one that should be greener.

 

Understand now?

[nojwod 55]

As an Aussie I am constantly amazed by the sense of 'entitlement' displayed by so much of the world that somehow we missed out on.  Down here we don't subscribe to the view that a person's status as a 'customer' allows them to be high and mighty, always right or need to be looked up to.  Mostly, everyone gets treated on their merits. The worst thing you can do to an Aussie is assume that money somehow is god or you have a special status that allows you to be the only one with a valid opinion or comment.  This leads to an assumption by some people that standing up to a belligerent customer is arrogant.  It's not.  All JV is doing is standing up for his rights as a developer of high quality add-ons, something he and his team do not for much financial return but rather for the love of the flight simulation world.  A small section of the world that hasn't come up right in the first iteration of a massive rework of global textures does not give anyone the right to say the product does not deliver.  

 

Imagine going into a pub in Australia (or Ireland for that matter) and forking out your $7 (or 4 euros) for a beer, which the bar sells as a quality alcoholic beverage with a very acceptable palate and no surprises.  Your average customer accepts that the beer will be a good drink but if they really try and find fault, they could.  They could say it's a bit colder than they like or the head is a bit bigger than they like etc.  However the wise customer, particularly in Australia (and Ireland for that matter) will accept that the beer overall is worth the money they paid for it and would accept absolutely that if they complained to the barman that it was just a bit too cold or the head was just a bit bigger than they like they would expect a withering reply, if not an express instruction to leave for their own health.  A nice polite conversation with the barman about your own preferences without criticising the beer as served will often get a sympathetic ear and will help the barman to produce the best possible product as time goes on.

 

And so it is with FSX add-ons.  Don't swan in to a forum (the bar) and proclaim the add-on (the beer) is crap and expect the barman (JV) to accept your posturing unreservedly.

[MartinRex007 390]

I can't think of another company (Flightsimming since 1985) that has brought so much to our flightsim hobby. There are a lot of great developers out there, but Orbx has really created a sim within a sim and has given new life to FSX and P3D. JV and his team are very serious about providing a great product, and I couldn't be happier with all the products and support that they have provided me over the years, so I know I'm in good hands when dealing with Orbx.....and JV :unsure:

 

Now everyone go have a cold beer!

 

Cheers

Martin

[BilboBaggins 82]

As an Aussie I am constantly amazed by the sense of 'entitlement' displayed by so much of the world that somehow we missed out on. Down here we don't subscribe to the view that a person's status as a 'customer' allows them to be high and mighty, always right or need to be looked up to. Mostly, everyone gets treated on their merits. The worst thing you can do to an Aussie is assume that money somehow is god or you have a special status that allows you to be the only one with a valid opinion or comment. This leads to an assumption by some people that standing up to a belligerent customer is arrogant. It's not. All JV is doing is standing up for his rights as a developer of high quality add-ons, something he and his team do not for much financial return but rather for the love of the flight simulation world. A small section of the world that hasn't come up right in the first iteration of a massive rework of global textures does not give anyone the right to say the product does not deliver.

 

Imagine going into a pub in Australia (or Ireland for that matter) and forking out your $7 (or 4 euros) for a beer, which the bar sells as a quality alcoholic beverage with a very acceptable palate and no surprises. Your average customer accepts that the beer will be a good drink but if they really try and find fault, they could. They could say it's a bit colder than they like or the head is a bit bigger than they like etc. However the wise customer, particularly in Australia (and Ireland for that matter) will accept that the beer overall is worth the money they paid for it and would accept absolutely that if they complained to the barman that it was just a bit too cold or the head was just a bit bigger than they like they would expect a withering reply, if not an express instruction to leave for their own health. A nice polite conversation with the barman about your own preferences without criticising the beer as served will often get a sympathetic ear and will help the barman to produce the best possible product as time goes on.

 

And so it is with FSX add-ons. Don't swan in to a forum (the bar) and proclaim the add-on (the beer) is crap and expect the barman (JV) to accept your posturing unreservedly.

That's it, I'm going to have to retire in Australia, or Ireland! Preferably Australia because it's bigger, including the spiders.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[pete_auau 1,175]

As an Aussie I am constantly amazed by the sense of 'entitlement' displayed by so much of the world that somehow we missed out on.  Down here we don't subscribe to the view that a person's status as a 'customer' allows them to be high and mighty, always right or need to be looked up to.  Mostly, everyone gets treated on their merits. The worst thing you can do to an Aussie is assume that money somehow is god or you have a special status that allows you to be the only one with a valid opinion or comment.  This leads to an assumption by some people that standing up to a belligerent customer is arrogant.  It's not.  All JV is doing is standing up for his rights as a developer of high quality add-ons, something he and his team do not for much financial return but rather for the love of the flight simulation world.  A small section of the world that hasn't come up right in the first iteration of a massive rework of global textures does not give anyone the right to say the product does not deliver.  

 

Imagine going into a pub in Australia (or Ireland for that matter) and forking out your $7 (or 4 euros) for a beer, which the bar sells as a quality alcoholic beverage with a very acceptable palate and no surprises.  Your average customer accepts that the beer will be a good drink but if they really try and find fault, they could.  They could say it's a bit colder than they like or the head is a bit bigger than they like etc.  However the wise customer, particularly in Australia (and Ireland for that matter) will accept that the beer overall is worth the money they paid for it and would accept absolutely that if they complained to the barman that it was just a bit too cold or the head was just a bit bigger than they like they would expect a withering reply, if not an express instruction to leave for their own health.  A nice polite conversation with the barman about your own preferences without criticising the beer as served will often get a sympathetic ear and will help the barman to produce the best possible product as time goes on.

 

And so it is with FSX add-ons.  Don't swan in to a forum (the bar) and proclaim the add-on (the beer) is crap and expect the barman (JV) to accept your posturing unreservedly.

Lol  well written

[ivo09 23]

slightly off topic.. but I just found out the JV and I share a birthdate :Nail Biting:

[zmak 331]

slightly off topic.. but I just found out the JV and I share a birthdate :Nail Biting:

orbx does have a seniors discount, not joking

[Guest]

orbx does have a seniors discount, not joking

 

He didn't say they were born in the same year... but on the same date. ^_^ And I don't think JV is a senior already btw. B)

[Ron Attwood 3,562]

As an Aussie I am constantly amazed by the sense of 'entitlement' displayed by so much of the world that somehow we missed out on.  Down here we don't subscribe to the view that a person's status as a 'customer' allows them to be high and mighty, always right or need to be looked up to.  Mostly, everyone gets treated on their merits. The worst thing you can do to an Aussie is assume that money somehow is god or you have a special status that allows you to be the only one with a valid opinion or comment.  This leads to an assumption by some people that standing up to a belligerent customer is arrogant.  It's not.  All JV is doing is standing up for his rights as a developer of high quality add-ons, something he and his team do not for much financial return but rather for the love of the flight simulation world.  A small section of the world that hasn't come up right in the first iteration of a massive rework of global textures does not give anyone the right to say the product does not deliver.  

 

Imagine going into a pub in Australia (or Ireland for that matter) and forking out your $7 (or 4 euros) for a beer, which the bar sells as a quality alcoholic beverage with a very acceptable palate and no surprises.  Your average customer accepts that the beer will be a good drink but if they really try and find fault, they could.  They could say it's a bit colder than they like or the head is a bit bigger than they like etc.  However the wise customer, particularly in Australia (and Ireland for that matter) will accept that the beer overall is worth the money they paid for it and would accept absolutely that if they complained to the barman that it was just a bit too cold or the head was just a bit bigger than they like they would expect a withering reply, if not an express instruction to leave for their own health.  A nice polite conversation with the barman about your own preferences without criticising the beer as served will often get a sympathetic ear and will help the barman to produce the best possible product as time goes on.

 

And so it is with FSX add-ons.  Don't swan in to a forum (the bar) and proclaim the add-on (the beer) is crap and expect the barman (JV) to accept your posturing unreservedly.

Suddenly, I love JV!  :wub: 

Seriously, a good analogy. :good:

[GHarrall 494]

No, it's not difficult to grasp, but apparently you are having difficulty.

 

I know that the semi desert shrubs texture is called for other arid areas of the world. The fact is that it *should* be colored more like a desert shrubland texture and less like a grassland one. This applies for those other areas of the world as well. There is a semi desert *sage* texture that is available and called in some areas that are a bit less arid. *This* is the one that should be greener.

 

Understand now?

lol....it's a balancing act whatever you do. to make things work in one area it breaks it in another simply because of the design choices MS made in the fist place. ftx global has chosen a certain route to make it work for them. the open LC addons will fix remaining issues. GEX has been though this too and in many areas where it should be greener, it isn't because of this same problem. take a look at GEXin Northern Europe and USA. the textures are very arid and dry looking with nowhere near the right level of green. This is especially noticeable in the UK. it looks more like Southern Europe because those same textures are also used in Italy, Spain, France etc.

 

is it perfect?, no. A worldwide texture addon without custom landclass cannot be by definition.