More arrogance from J.V. over at ORBX

[ShawnG 1,823]

 

 

I don't understand how the traditionally civil FS community has deteriorated

 

When was this?  I don't remember civility being much of a hallmark in flightsim, going back to the '90's.  The flightsim community has always been a home for whiny, overly entitled know-it-alls since way back.  That's why EA bailed on the Jane's sims, and why even MS is no longer in the game.  look around, Austin Meyers, JV, NickN, PMDG. Mathjis Kok.  You gotta have a damn strong personality to deal with this crowd on a daily basis, and keep going.  I've had my issues with JV's approach at times, but I have many more issues with the approach taken by lots of my fellow simmers.  

[xplanery 250]

 

 

The flightsim community has always been a home for whiny, overly entitled know-it-alls since way back.  That's why EA bailed on the Jane's sims, and why even MS is no longer in the game.

 

MS is no longer in the game because they can more money by concentrating their efforts on arcade console games and other mainstream stuff like that, not because of whining simmers. 

 

Anyway in my opinion FS community is quite civil compared to most of actual gaming communities out there, especially with anything that mainstream gamers enjoy to play.

[ShawnG 1,823]

 

 

MS is no longer in the game because they can more money by concentrating their efforts on arcade console games and other mainstream stuff like that, not because of whining simmers. 

 

yeah, but they always could make more money by focusing on those types of games.  They still kept making FS,  until Flight.  and yes, the extremely irrational hatred shown by simmers to Flight was a definite factor in them leaving the game.  I was disappointed in flight, but there were some good things there that could have been developed further, and at some point it could have "grown up into FS11"  now it won't.

 

other gaming communities are harsh as well,  but I've never really seen the "rivet counter" syndrome like happens here.

[dogtrack 18]

....as I recall we were all a happy lot with FS98. And still content when FS2000 and FS2002 happened along. So when, I ask, did the rot set in. Surely that can't be classed as progress....

[JRBarrett 3,071]

I'm amazed that so many people are (apparently) still running FSX with the original stock landclass. I remember when FSX was first released, the immediate (and justified) loud hue and cry about the inaccurate landclass, in which large areas of the U.S. Midwest looked like a dry African savannah, instead of lush green as it should look (at least in the summer).

 

One of the very first add-ons that I purchased for FSX, back in 2007, was replacement landclass for North America from FSGenesis. Later, I purchased SceneryTech landclass for the rest of the world. So far, the depictions of the terrain I have seen using FTXG had been nothing short of awe-inspiring. And, I WAS a long time user of GEX textures... I had every GEX region installed - but FTXG is far superior.

 

I have not explored the southwestern U.S. yet, but will do so later today. I'm curious to see if the SceneryTech landclass makes any difference re: the green desert textures.

 

Even the best texture and landclass will probably have a difficult time depicting the terrain accurately in some areas, in certain seasons. For example: in most of the U.S. east of the Rocky Mounains, the vegetation becomes brown and dry in winter. Deciduous trees lose their leaves, grass goes dormant and turns brown etc.

 

In Southern California, the situation is reversed. On the coastal side of the mountains, it is SUMMER when the vegetation becomes dry and brown. Things don't become lush and green until late autumn/early winter, when the rainy season finally gets underway. When I lived in San Diego, the "greenest"'time of the year (insofar as native vegetation is concerned) was January and February.

 

With a limited assortment of seasonal textures, with basic landclass, FSX has never handled the appearance of coastal Southern California properly summer vs. winter. I'm curious as to what OpenLC will bring to this region.

[Blackrat100 33]

 

I personally would stick to the AVSIM unofficial forums - its a more friendly place

Yeah, sounds like it.

[xplanery 250]

They still kept making FS,  until Flight.  and yes, the extremely irrational hatred shown by simmers to Flight was a definite factor in them leaving the game.  I was disappointed in flight, but there were some good things there that could have been developed further, and at some point it could have "grown up into FS11"  now it won't.

First ACES studio was disbanded and MS killed FS series years before they started flight which is a completely separate game. 

 

When it comes to Flight growing into FS11 I don't believe MS ever had that intention. They just wanted more money by dropping third party development from it and developing addons themselves, that alone is a reason why Flight could have never grown to FS11 even though its developers surely are very skilled people who would have wanted to make it something bigger and better.

 

Through all the history of MS FS, X Plane 10, Flight Gear etc third party development is what has kept them alive and growing, there's no way small team behind Flight could have ever brought us the same quality and coverage of addons that all the third party developers have done for FSX. 

 

When MS decided to drop third party development support from MS Flight the hope for it becoming next big FS was already lost forever. 

 

I guess MS incorrectly thought there would be big enough audience outside traditional FS community that had already found their way to FSX and X Plane, and that's why Flight failed. It simply did not sell well enough, not because of simmers being irrational and hateful but because it didn't offer much to someone with FSX + some good addons installed. 

[mmann 72]

 

 

I guess MS incorrectly thought there would be big enough audience outside traditional FS community that had already found their way to FSX and X Plane, and that's why Flight failed. It simply did not sell well enough, not because of simmers being irrational and hateful but because it didn't offer much to someone with FSX + some good addons installed.

 

You hit the nail on the head; Flight was never meant to be FS11.

[Andrewk737 5]

Suddenly, I love JV! :wub:

Seriously, a good analogy. :good:

I'm confused have ORBX started brewing beer?

[mfahey 46]

When was this?  I don't remember civility being much of a hallmark in flightsim, going back to the '90's.  

 

I was reading happily away and this ShawnG's comment about was civility a hallmark for flightsim in the past touched a point in my history which I had long forgotten about. I was the developer of one of the first commercial scenery add-ons for Microsoft Flight Sim. This was way back when the latest was FS4! I produced 3 boxed scenery releases, one each year and all became one of the largest selling entertainment software products of each year here in Australia.

 

The attacks back in those days were "how dare you charge for add-on scenery". Well at least the community has moved beyond that position!  

[sascha 314]

....as I recall we were all a happy lot with FS98. And still content when FS2000 and FS2002 happened along. So when, I ask, did the rot set in. Surely that can't be classed as progress....

 

That is what I recall too. I guess it has something to do with the transition from having mostly freeware to having lots of payware addons - the transition from fan to paying customer has in some cases fuzzed the relationship between user and developer.

 

Now if you pay for a product you do have some entitlement. This does not justify flaming a decent developer, but calling customer complaints whining in public is not going to do your reputation any good in most lines of business!

 

While most people seem to reconcile their customer/fan duality pretty well, some people go to extremes - either letting the customer come to the fore and demanding constant attention or being a ###### and flaming any and all negatively perceived comments!

 

In my case it is a live and let live scenario - I don't care a whit which addons other people use and I don't need to defend my taste in addons. I just don't like the general rudeness and disparaging tone which has become more common in FS forums.

... the last thing we want is developers subjecting their income stream to the whims of the multitude.

 

Doing what the multitude of your customers want is sound business practice, I believe. If you ignore the wishes of the larger part of your customers, your share of the cake will shrink.

 

In any case, I believ ORBX are doing what their customers want quite well, there just seems to be room for mutual antagonism.

[dogtrack 18]

"In my case it is a live and let live scenario - I don't care a whit which addons other people use and I don't need to defend my taste in addons. I just don't like the general rudeness and disparaging tone which has become more common in FS forums."

 

I will go along with that also, Sascha. Well said.

[EngineRoom 205]

 

 

In my case it is a live and let live scenario - I don't care a whit which addons other people use and I don't need to defend my taste in addons. I just don't like the general rudeness and disparaging tone which has become more common in FS forums.

 

Absolutely true. It's a problem common to the wider Internet - it seems the heady mix of anonymity, a keyboard and an audience is too much for an awful lot of people to handle.

 

A few years ago I read a post on another FS forum from a developer who said the FS addon industry was full of back biting, grudges and vendettas among developers. I think it's mostly been kept behind closed doors but recently it's started to become more open - I think the release of FTXG has underlined this. I suppose in Orbx's ascent to the top JV has trodden on quite a few toes...

[HugoStiglitz 5]

Lets just hope a similer problem doesnt arise when the 777 comes out..  :ph34r: