Hi,

 

I'm just wondering if any of the beta testers here can express their experiences with how PMDG is simulating fly-by-wire logic in the flight control system of the 777.      I'm sure PMDG did a wonderful job from the descriptions posted on here so far, so I'm mostly inquiring from the perspective of "it would be cool to know".         

 

With their F-18E Superbug product for Flight Simulator X, VRS Simulations has a very unique method of passing simulator FBW flight control logic processing to a completely separate module outside of FSX, then 'piping' the processed flight control data back into Flight Simulator.       Again, I'm sure PMDG did and outstanding job with whatever method they've used to simulate FBW systems on the new 777;  it would just be fun to hear how everyone's impressions are so far.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Signed,

 

Andrew Hansen

isn't the VRS Bug and Majestic Dash 8 the only 2 Payware that use "flight control logic processing to a completely separate module outside of FSX"?  Even the NGX didn't have this feature :(

 

 

Even the NGX didn't have this feature

 

You sure about that?

I don't think any PMDG aircraft process the flight inputs externally. They use a differant method that they call fly by software.

You sure about that?

Mr. Frooglesim said it on his video review of the Majestic Dash 8.  Are you sure?  Maybe a dev can answer this.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_pyJHsGwMw

 

 

PMDG fans need to relax and do some research before posting.  You know, there are other Devs out there making awesome stuff, it's not only PMDG.  The VRS Bug, Majestic Dash 8, Coolsky DC9 and Super 80 Pro to name a few blow the NGX out of the water in realism and flight modeling.

Maybe a dev can answer this.

 

Top man himself:

Ken-

 

Ryan has been pretty polite on that topic- which is important.  We have techniques that we use- and others have techniques that they use.  I think it would be inappropriate for PMDG to comment on the value of techniques used by other developers beyond observations of whether we do something similar or different.

 

Providing a qualitative opinion is unimportant- and it isn't helpful to guys who work hard at something like the folks at Majestic...  What works for us might not work for them, etc.  So our opinion of the individual choices they make isn't important.  What IS important is that we think they do good work- and we hope they succeed- because good products make for a healthy marketplace for all of us!

 

(I recognize that there are some out there who love to take shots at us- but seriously- we have all accomplished some things in life and at PMDG and we can't be bothered to pay it much attention...)

 

But lest I get side-tracked:

 

One irritant that we see now and then is a bunch of poorly informed conjecture from folks who largely don't have a clue how things are done will arrive in this forum waiving the marketing material from some other developer and begin singing about how some new technique is changing the world...

 

They are almost always wrong- and there aren't many techniques that we haven't tried/experimented with...

 

We have been doing a fly-by-software flight model for so long we actually had some internal debate as to whether it was five years or seven...

 

It makes me laugh out loud when we see folks proclaim that we could "unload" FSX to improve frame rates by moving something outside of FSX...   We have been outside of FSX since before anyone else decided to pitch the idea as a great marketing tool...and none of you even knew it. 

 

I suppose part of that is our fault:  Many of the techniques that we use are proprietary.  We don't describe them in detail because we don't want to throw too many bones to competitors.  We want them to succeed- but we don't want it to be EASY for them, after all.   B)

 

We tend not to do much bragging and our marketing technique primarily is to show you previews here in the forum and then stand back and let the product speak for itself.  Ultimately in the end-game, it doesn't matter if you know HOW we make our simulations high fidelity- it only matters that your experience with them assures you that they are high fidelity...

 

To put it another way:  Since 1997 we have continued to reach for higher and higher levels of fidelity- and ultimately it doesn't matter how we do it...  It just matters that we do.

(emphasis mine)

She's a very intelligent bird. I put it in a +6000fpm climb in V/S and we got around 5000ft to our requested altitude when we were getting into the yellow portion of the speed. Next thing I knew she completely avoided a stall by pitching down to gain airspeed.. All by herself (-: that was at 320 tons.

 

Overspeed protection is excellent too! From FL410 I put the IAS to 399knts and a descent down to 10,000ft in FLCH with the speedbrakes fully extended and she stayed out of overspeed and averaged a 4800-fpm descent. In a depressurisation - that's what you want to see!

 

Bank angle protection is there and all works brilliantly.

How does this bird hand fly on a lite load?

She's a very intelligent bird. I put it in a +6000fpm climb in V/S and we got around 5000ft to our requested altitude when we were getting into the yellow portion of the speed. Next thing I knew she completely avoided a stall by pitching down to gain airspeed.. All by herself (-: that was at 320 tons.

 

Overspeed protection is excellent too! From FL410 I put the IAS to 399knts and a descent down to 10,000ft in FLCH with the speedbrakes fully extended and she stayed out of overspeed and averaged a 4800-fpm descent. In a depressurisation - that's what you want to see!

 

Bank angle protection is there and all works brilliantly.

 

I can only agree with what Luke says, she follows the fly by wire logic of the real aircraft to the letter. Well actually not a letter, maybe a novel, as there is an awful lot of that logic going on behind the scenes. No-one need have any concerns as to whether the last nuance of the FBW system is modelled as the short answer is that it is all there.

Does that mean no loop the loops or barrel rolls then?

How does this bird hand fly on a lite load?

 

Hey Chris, something akin to a NASA shuttle launch its an amazing experience, even in a desktop sim. Its an amazing powerhouse. I read recently that each of the engines has 3 times the horsepower of the worlds largest cruise liner!

How does this bird hand fly on a lite load?

 

Like a big bird with a ton of power.  Climbs like crazy, but definitely as you'd expect.

Does that mean no loop the loops or barrel rolls then?

 

the fly by wire will let you do pretty much what you want, that is the Boeing philosophy, however, the aircraft tries to dissuade you by reducing roll rate at the extremes of the envelope forcing you to make a concerted effort to do something silly. The real aircraft also adds in additional yoke resistance as a not so subtle reminder that it doesn't like what you are doing.

 

 

Mr. Frooglesim said it on his video review of the Majestic Dash 8.  Are you sure?

 

Just because Froogle said it doesn't mean it's true.  Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect from him, and he does great work, but people are occasionally wrong.

 

 

 

PMDG fans need to relax and do some research before posting.

 

Which is funny, especially because there's a post out there by Robert on this very subject (quoted) that I researched to find.  This post supports what I said.  So...who should be doing their research (and verifying their third party sources, more specifically)?

 

If you need me, I'll be finding some crows for you.

 

 

 

You know, there are other Devs out there making awesome stuff, it's not only PMDG.  The VRS Bug, Majestic Dash 8, Coolsky DC9 and Super 80 Pro to name a few blow the NGX out of the water in realism and flight modeling.

 

Owning all of those but the Bug, I agree that they're awesome, but to say "blow the NGX out of the water in realism and flight modeling" is a bit (lot) of a stretch.

How does this bird hand fly on a lite load?

 

I don't know if anyone on the beta team is actually rated on the T7 and post here, but I'd be interested to see what they think on this as well.