More attacks against OrbX by NickN over at Flight1

[ailchim 224]

I don't claim to know what damage OrbX may or may not be doing.

 

However IF they are altering the base structure of FSX then it's THEIR responsibility ALONE to:

 

a) warn people explicitly that is the case and 

b) provide install/un-install procedures that make these alterations completely reversible.

 

It's no use trying to transfer responsibility for that to the users.  we're not all experts but more importantly, OrbX are the ones selling this product  and it's up to them to take same standard of care that it does no harm as any other commercial business.

[Guest ecg]

 

 

I will not comment on NickN's form or elaborate content, but he presents three points:
 
1. FTX Global alters your FSX core files
2. FTX Global does not come with an uninstaller
3. FTX Global cannot be disabled
 
This is my first Orbx product and if these three points above are correct, I am not impressed.

 

 

1. FTX Global alters your FSX core files - they may do this,  but there are also posts on the OrbX forum as to what they do and why. Its not a clandestine conspiracy as NickN suggests
2. FTX Global does not come with an uninstaller - was not available at launch, they should have one soon according to their web site.
3. FTX Global cannot be disabled - it replaces default textures, so does GEX. You can't turn either one off.

 

My point in this original post was to point out the complete unprofessionalism NickN shows as a developer of a rival product. 

 

I posted a topic on the Flight1 general forum inquiring about this. It was promptly deleted.

[xplanery 250]

I posted a topic on the Flight1 general forum inquiring about this. It was promptly deleted.

 

Doesn't sound too surprising.

 

I wish they would at least try to do something to various users including me getting FSX startup crashes related to Level D 767 DLL file, I've been suffering from that for years and it forced me to remove yet another buggy F1 product from my system, their ATR being the other. I guess the problem is caused by old code from FS2002 / FS2004 era still being used on these products and being incompatible with god knows what. 

[PapaRomeo 40]

I like NickN, he has been more than helpful regarding FSX.
I also like FTX Global, like i did with GEX.
I don't know much about the developers of FTX Global, other than they make superb products.

I think this is a fight on a higher plan.

[Spartan0536 49]

I swear by GEX & UTX, and the GEX team are a nice bunch just like the ORBX team. I am glad ORBX is in the "fight", just by them announcing FTXGlobal and showing screenshots GEX put out their "Global" update which shows what happens when companies compete, the consumer wins (or should at least in theory). Lets get 1 thing straight and both the ORBX and GEX team's will back me up 100% on this...... GEX & FTXGlobal products will NOT work together because they both do the SAME EXACT THING; UTX is a different matter altogether. GEX has plans for their version 2 products including US&CAN which from what I have been told and seen screenshots of WIP's will include new texturing effects that have 3D bump-mapping so that you get the feeling of more autogen without the frame hit (GEX's 5 star rated autogen will still be the same if not better than before). FTXGlobal is NOT malware, it is a great piece of software from the ORBX team and IMHO is the only real competition to GEX & UTX at this time, the choice is yours, choose what you think looks better.

[mosteen 111]

1. FTX Global alters your FSX core files - they may do this,  but there are also posts on the OrbX forum as to what they do and why. Its not a clandestine conspiracy as NickN suggests

2. FTX Global does not come with an uninstaller - was not available at launch, they should have one soon according to their web site.

3. FTX Global cannot be disabled - it replaces default textures, so does GEX. You can't turn either one off.

 

My point in this original post was to point out the complete unprofessionalism NickN shows as a developer of a rival product. 

 

I posted a topic on the Flight1 general forum inquiring about this. It was promptly deleted.

 

I get you mate, the "harm" of these three (two if you discount #3) can surely be debated, for me personally it is not a big deal. And desperation is never pretty :rolleyes:

 

Though, it is strange that even if I disable the tree / light options in Central, and also disable the three FTXG layers in scenery cfg, not only the textures are different, but the autogen also. Also my memory footprint for the fsx process is larger comparing to FSX + GEX with the same slidersettings, my FSL Concorde-X does not like that

 

And, when a professional company like Orbx are launching a product without a complete uninstaller wich would restore backed up original system files, if they alter them, they must be ready to take the heat. No excuse, and an apology is in order. Let's just hope that an uninstaller was in their mind when they made the installer so that an uninstall is possible without people starting to share copyrighted files...

 

Anyway, FTXG is a splendid product, I am enjoying my BA-schedule all over again, it's a brand new world :wub:

[SierraHotel 994]

I know, it's all subjective but......

 

Approaching EHAM (Schiphol) in the PMDG 737NGX

 

Default Scenery = 10FPS

GEX = 8/10FPS

FTXG = 17/18FPS

 

Using DX10 (FTX Lights disabled)

[mosteen 111]

Interesting Mike, I also had that feeling, my not-so-fast rig felt smoother after GEX->FTXG, I even cranked up my sliders to max and could not feel a difference from my old GEX setup with only Very Dense. So, whatever changes they have done to my core FSX-files, I concur, but I would always like to know that I have the possibility to return to "vanilla".

[robmw 22]

I've purchased nearly every Orbx scenery since they started out plus all the GEX regions and use both of them. FTX Central has always had the default option to return core FSX files to their default values which is what John Venema referred to in a post at the Orbx forums explaining how FTXG works in terms of landclass lookups and their previous regional products. Extending core FSX files is key to how FTX regions are able to have local landclass and autogen for example. John V said this was approved by the MS Aces team at the time provided there was a way to return to the default files - hence the default option in FTX Central.

 

As released FTXG does not do this and I expect the forthcoming uninstaller will not be part of FTX Central and will have to be run separately (I'm happy to be proved wrong on this count). However, provided it works there will then be a way to restore the core FSX files.

 

The problem here is that the changes to core FSX files potentially change the way in which any other product which does adhere to the FSX SDK will work such as displaying unexpected textures, misplaced autogen etc. So if you were the developer of a product which relied on the original FSX files being present (acording to the SDK standard) and then found that these were replaced without an obvious method to revoke the changes such that this had a negative impact on your product, don't you think you'd be a bit annoyed?

 

Irrespective of how Nick expresses himself (or how it is received) what he says is correct in terms of the effect to FSX and other add-ons. Personally I question that this was an oversight because FTX Central has always restored the core files until now.

 

So when the uninstaller is available there should no longer be a problem but the underlying issues need to be understood. I don't often feel the need to speak out as I can and do sort out these kinds of problems for myself but in this case I felt I had no choice.

 

Rob W

[fwerff 70]

I've not bought FTXG yet and I'm still in debate if I will, considering the fact I've already invested in three GEX regions.

I do agree Nick brings his critism a bit blunt and probably also somewhat biased him being the GEX developer.

He does however bring up a concern I do share and agree with him.

If OrbX indeed alters FSX core files and continue's to do so, what effect does that have on other (non-OrbX) addons using those same core files?

I can imagine other devs might not always be willing (or able) to comply to the alterations OrbX made to the core files.

I think this is infact the point Nick is trying to make. By using FTXG the user might (unknowingly) be commiting to the OrbX core modifications and by doing that increasing the risc of problems with other addons.

 

Edit: just read the post above mine by RobW; I fully concur and basically I'm trying to say the same.

[Guest ecg]

So if you were the developer of a product which relied on the original FSX files being present (acording to the SDK standard) and then found that these were replaced without an obvious method to revoke the changes such that this had a negative impact on your product, don't you think you'd be a bit annoyed?

Absolutely, and from what I have seen at OrbX at least publicly, they are willing to share this info and work with other developers to make sure their products mesh well with OrbX products. Is this the way it should be, maybe not, but OrbX is trying to improve and extend an outdated and unsupported product in FSX.

 

This scenario is not impacting NickN's product GEX, since FXTG replaces it. Therein lies the real problem with his posts. Scare users away from FTXG so they will stick with GEX.

 

In reading the majority of posts about FTXG on the interweb, its not working, even with the problems outlined so far.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

These are the questions I'm currently wondering about:

 

1) If an upcoming FTXG uninstaller is able to restore default FSX core files, shouldn't there be a backup of these files be visible already in today's FTXG installations?

 

2) If there were no backup files in current FTXG installations, the upcoming uninstaller would have to re-distribute "vanilla" FSX core files - doesn't this require permission by current FSX source code owner Lockheed Martin?

 

3) If ORBX is willing to ensure compatibility of FTXG with other scenery developers' addons, aren't they literally forced to priority handling of publishers like Aerosoft, with a large number of smaller developers having to wait for their products to be dealt with?

 

I've appreciated ORBX' efforts in scenery design so far and I'll continue to buy their regions and addon airports, but I really would like to see the FTXG issue sorted out soon ...

[HansRoaming 73]

Would just like to add:

 

• During install you can select the option to backup textures etc that FTXG replaces, I have done this
• For the lookup files it mods they work with other developers to make sure that changes can be accommodated, for example Earth Simulations excellent Scilly Isles, Alderney, Jersey and isle of man.

[Christopher Low 5,427]

Why would a piece of software like this be released without an uninstaller?

[Guest]

LOL Who would want to uninstall FTX Global anyway... :rolleyes: And if you really think you don't want to use it anymore, a simple reinstall of FSX will restore everything. NickN is creating a fuss about nothing... THIS IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD! We're talking about a computer game here. Get a life, NickN.