LOL Who would want to uninstall FTX Global anyway... :rolleyes:

 

Exxxxaaaactly! ......... I don't care if they never add a backup for the Lookup.bgl or any other overwritten file! .... I backed up the textures the first install, but when I reinstalled FTXG (to restore the lighting BGLs) I never bothered wasting 10 mins backing up the textures - because I would never dream of running FSX again without FTXG !!!! ........ I'm personally happy to reinstall FSX if I need to, but it certainly wouldn't be to get the default textures or GEX back!

 

Calling FTXG "Malware" is laughable.    What a fool he is making of himself publically.....  It's sad really.

My analogy is not extreme... it is exactly the same concept.  Changing the core behavior of the sim itself to further my own commercial agenda in such a manner as to cause problems for other products be they freeware or payware.

 

No.  Improving the core behaviour of the sim itself, in my view.

 

Anyway, even if Nick had a valid point (which he does to many); it's all how you communicate and influence people in this world - had he have handled this better and not come over like a petulant, spoilt, bully, he could have attracted more support to his rant cause.

 

To me it's just the developer of a c2006 standard product, chucking all his toys out of the pram because a competitor has arrived with a vasty superior, state of the art product.

 

I'm basing my views on the individuals actions here - I am no fan of Nick as I too always found him pompous, condescending and arrogant... but likewise I have no time for the Orbx guy either, who again isn't exactly a role model for customer-focussed communication, patience or respect towards others.

 

If you want to look at role models in this business, you look at Scott Gentile (A2A), Rob and Shaun (RealAir), Robert R (PMDG), Bryan York (FS2Crew) and Espen (Coolsky) - among many others.   Respectful, intelligent, perspective-laden gents, who treat customers as fellow simmers, and with respect.

well... Holger Sandmann just posted this which doesn't seem to match up with what NickN is saying?

 

Hi Harry,

 

have a look in \ORBX\Scripts\custom.gb_base and \ORBX\Scripts\custom.gb_hybrid. Those two folders contain all the global files we replace. Actually, the only difference between those two folders is lclookup.bgl, all other files are identical. 

 

As with our region products backup copies of a user's current file set, default or third-party, is stored in \ORBX\Scripts\Backup. Thus, its file list is the same as in the custom.gb folders. FYI, even if you cancelled the FTXG backup option these files should still have been backed up, it's just the content of \Scenery\World\texture that wasn't copied to a backup folder of your choice.

 

Since only lclookup.bgl is different between "base" and "hybrid" modes of FTXG is doesn't matter which mode you're in when installing other add-ons. What I would do though in the case of an add-on that alters default.xml or other autogen files is to make backup copies of our versions in custom.gb_base and custom.gb_hybrid and, after testing that the new versions works as intended, use those as your extended FTXG version in the two folders.  

 

Cheers, Holger

Putting aside for a moment all the swirling interpersonal drama's (Nick's, JV's, users' in one camp or the other, users' with past histories with one company or the other, in which group I include myself), my current topline POV is:

 

• Nick knows the technical ins and outs of FSX really well.  
• So do JV/Orbx.
• There are advantages to products that conform 100 percent to the FSX SDK - they're 100 percent predictable.
• There are advantages to products that bend the SDK - they overcome the inherent limitations of FSX.
• Nick has been personally helpful to me in the past, and I follow his advice, but not always to the letter.
• JV and I have quarreled in the past, but we're not quarreling at the moment.
• I've had a good run with GEX - it was a big improvement over default FSX.
• I really like the look of FTXG - it's improved my sim experience hugely.
• I'm mildly concerned that FTXG might have broken something in my FSX install in way that won't be apparent now, but that emerge at some point later on.
• It's quite possible that even if FTXG breaks something, I'll continue to be happy enough with the product that I'll do without whatever that something is.
• If it turns out that FTXG screws up my FSX, I guess I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

So... am a guardedly optimistic FTXG user and am ready to settle in to watch the food fight.

This whole thread is a big comedy!

Lets say Orbx will never release a proper uninstaller, which puts back the original files. So what?

In the case I don't want to use FTXG anymore, would it be the end of the world to reinstall FSX, start again with a clean and completely default software? Are we seriously discussing this???

it looks like, by installing FTXG everything will fall over and the dark ages just begun!

 

Puuuuuurrrrleeaaaseeee!!!!

 

 

...would it be the end of the world to reinstall FSX...

 

Not the end of the world but in my case about a month's work.  For some of us, it's not exactly a casual or first-resort option.  Just sayin'...

Not the end of the world but in my case about a month's work.  For some of us, it's not exactly a casual or first-resort option.  Just sayin'...

I agree with you and also in my case it'd take some time as well...

Still, it would not be like - Ok! FTX screw this up and that is it! No more FSX ever! bring the oil and feathers and get those Orbx guys!!!!!

There are plenty of people who would not appreciate having to reinstall FSX from scratch. Whether it is easy or difficult isn't the point.

That was the point Nick was trying to make...some standard FSX files are gone... giving us uninstaller later (unless they package those FSX files), it would not be possible.

 

Although I like Orbx and they are doing some amazing stuff...

 

I AM NOT WILLING TO HAND OVER FSX TO ONE SINGLE VENDOR! PERIOD! I find it ridiculous so many here are willing to do that,.,.just cause they like Orbx scenery.

So don't.

 

But in the meantime you are holding a position with no logical backing.

 

If on principle you simply won't do it, ok. But FTXG does not hurt other addons as Nick is so vehemently trying to stir up fear over.

No add-on should make irreversible changes to FSX unless an un-missable warning is given before they buy.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/415451-nickn-seems-to-be-totally-mistaken/

It won't have to get in the way of other addons. That's the point.

What addon does FTXG break ?

I'm working on week old information so this might already been fixed, but here goes.

 

From what I have seen on other forums, it seems that, FTXG has somehow managed to break compatability with FinlandX freeware scenery.

 

One of it's master pieces was the ability to land on frozen lakes during the winter time.

 

With FTXG, the water textures have somehow been corrupted/replaced by completely different textures. Users who changed from GEX to FTXG have reported that this only happens with FTXG.

 

The thing is that I'm a long time FTX user and woud like get FTXG, but will not be able to do so until I can see that this problem can be fixed.

 

BTW waiting for and paying for Orbx version of Finland isn't a viable option for me.

well... Holger Sandmann just posted this which doesn't seem to match up with what NickN is saying?

Hi Harry,

have a look in \ORBX\Scripts\custom.gb_base and \ORBX\Scripts\custom.gb_hybrid. Those two folders contain all the global files we replace. Actually, the only difference between those two folders is lclookup.bgl, all other files are identical.

As with our region products backup copies of a user's current file set, default or third-party, is stored in \ORBX\Scripts\Backup. Thus, its file list is the same as in the custom.gb folders. FYI, even if you cancelled the FTXG backup option these files should still have been backed up, it's just the content of \Scenery\World\texture that wasn't copied to a backup folder of your choice.

Since only lclookup.bgl is different between "base" and "hybrid" modes of FTXG is doesn't matter which mode you're in when installing other add-ons. What I would do though in the case of an add-on that alters default.xml or other autogen files is to make backup copies of our versions in custom.gb_base and custom.gb_hybrid and, after testing that the new versions works as intended, use those as your extended FTXG version in the two folders.

Cheers, Holger

Doesn't surprise me that Nicks fearmongering isn't completely based in fact.

I haven't noticed a single problem with FTX Global + Any addon airport scenery I'm using. 

 

Yeah Finland X doesn't work but I believe it's an exception, I don't really remember many other products that would do the kind of stuff it does. 

 

Also I'm not using autogen or landclass in my sceneries but instead I just rather hand place stuff using Instant Scenery 2 by Flight 1 and cover the area with photoreal scenery, thus whatever they do it's not gonna affect my products. So I really don't care or see ORBX taking over whole FSX market from others. 

No add-on should make irreversible changes to FSX unless an un-missable warning is given before they buy.

And Orbx doesn't. According to the above post from Holger.

I am NOT going comment, or worry about what developers may squabbling about, but instead, I would make the following observations, in the hope that ALL DEVELOPERS  pay a little more attention to what they are pushing out, and have the best interest of their customers at heart.

 

Its a basic fact of computer use ...  you  run an executable  (ie Install program), and you put yourself at the mercy of whoever wrote it (and hopefully did not mess it up),  entrusting they will have your best interests at heart, and will  not do anything to  "mess up" your system.

 

Two problems here..

(1) what is your best interest, (especially as seen by the installer developer) ?

(2) what is considered "messing up" your system. ?

 

Installer, have become an necessary item, for many reasons,  including the complexity of some installs, and the need to attempt to protect one's intellectual property.

 

As these installs get more complex, there are a diminishing number of FS enthusiasts, who could be trusted to install manually, without risking massive Tech support needs,

 

Personally, I would far prefer to install Manually, where I can see exactly what steps I am taking, understand them, and can make my own judgement, on how I can revert back to original setting, should I wish.  -- but I can well see that other, just want to press a button, and have it all done for them automatically  -- with a justifiable attitude of "Just do it and get it done, I don't want to know the details,  just make it work".

 

The problem of install over a system, that has previously been modified by another products installer,  just adds exponentially grown concerns and problems.

 

Maybe the answer is some compromise  -- ie

 

Every Installer  & De-installer  should have a set of text instructions, that tell you EXACTLY what the Installer/De-installer  is doing (that would allow you to optionally, conduct the Installation Manually)

 

  -  together with what files it is changing or overwriting, and what backups are being made.   One has to assume that the person designing the Installer already has this information, so supplying it as a PDF should not be that much extra work.

 

I have personally written Installer/De-Installer for FSX, and my biggest worry when doing do, if the fear that my work will in somehow do damage to the user's FSX.