_{My personal subjective opinion :}

 

 

_{EU ENG - visibly under par but still very good. My layman's eye struggles to find much difference between FTX Global and this package....}

 

Something I've noticed myself but didn't want to voice. Of course, EU ENG is more accurate in terms of placement, but accuracy isn't something I'm too fussed with. Let's be honest, no FTX region is accurate in the true sense of the word. It is strange though, how FTX Global often gives a better impression of England than the dedicated FTX version. 

 

The worst things about it are the roads look terrible (most of them just look like the go in straight lines most of the time, and the colour looks just wrong)........

 

......you could be just about anywhere, it's almost as though they have created a generic texture that they could just "slap on" France for example!

 

Ian.

 

Let's not focus too much on the roads in FTX. In my opinion, they are the weakest point in all regions, not just EU ENG. Although, I believe more effort was made in earlier regions to make vector roads blend in. And yes, "you could be just about anywhere", hence my comments above. 

 

@Ian

I find that the flat grey featureless roads in FSX generally look horrid, whether in Orbx or UTX, or whatever. In the comparison shots posted earlier, if you simply removed those bland roads, the EU pic would look a 100x better.

 

The picture would indeed look better, but still nowhere near as refined as all previous FTX regions.

 

IMO, towns and cities never look as good as rural landscapes, whether you are using landclass scenery or photoscenery. I think the real problem with the ORBx UK regions (and one that has been pointed out already in this thread) is that there are texture tiles next to each other that clearly do not match (eg. roads that are suddenly cut off). Flaws like this are like huge flashing neon signs in the landscape that say "this is not real". Photoscenery does not have this problem, although it can easily have others (eg. over saturated colours, and adjacent "strips" of differing quality). However, it's the urban areas that suffer most in both cases.

 

I see what you're getting at and it's a good point, however, my earlier screenshots clearly show that urban landscapes can, and do, look good in FTX. They were all randomly chosen, urban areas of the FTX world and the first three look excellent, don't you think?

 

The sim720 team should study user feedback such as this forum, make changes and improvements to the England and Wales regions based on that feedback, and release major patches for those areas....

 

An excellent piece of advice, Dave. I truly hope future updates happen. 

 

Unfortunately, what with contract's coming to a close and new stuff being worked on, I can't see SIM720 spending huge amounts of time (and it would require many, many hours) trying to bring the EU regions up to the standards of previous FTX packs. We're not talking a simple patch to address missing autogen or empty roads, we're talking a complete overhaul. What's more unfortunate, is neither the Orbx or SIM720 brand names benefited from the EU regions, i.e. they haven't increased positive popularity. I don't know what the contract stated between Orbx and SIM720 - nor do I care - but I doubt that SIM720 has even the remotest inclination to spend further money on something that doesn't even carry it's name.

 

I've subcontracted work out over the years, not because I wanted to, rather I didn't have the time or facilities to do it myself. From my own personal experience, it's paramount that the vast majority of subcontracted work receives proper supervision, every step of the way. This can almost defeat the object of giving work out in the first place, but - and this is the key point here - subcontracted work (unless closely supervised) very rarely meets the standards of those handing it out.    

 

Finally, I'm aware that there of those of you who think this discussion is overblown, contentious nonsense and that life's too short spending time with such trivial matters. However, with this amount of interest, I doubt Orbx think it's a trivial matter and although this thread contains strong views, none of it is posted in an attacking nature. There's nothing wrong in voicing ones opinion and if more people did so, when something from a trusted company wasn't quite up to scratch, then surely both parties would end up better off?

 

Thank you for all comments made in this thread and an even bigger thank you for keeping it polite.    

 

Mark 

Please explain precisely what you mean by this comment?

 

 

SimHQ awarded FTX ENG "Best Scenery and Terrain 2012" on Jan 2nd 2013. There were a number of excellent scenery releases all over 2012 with FTX ENG released only a couple of weeks before Christmas (Nov 17th).

FTX ENG received its first patch (488 MB) on Jan 19th 2013(!). First item in the changelog read "Finalized(sic!) road network"

 

The dates and figures speak for themselves. You're welcome.

Edited October 17, 201312 yr by olli4740

FTX ENG was pushed out juuust before Christmas 2012. Hard to believe it sky-rocketed immediately into the top titles of 2012.

 

Looks like the darker side of marketing to me ...

I don't know what you are trying to imply :ph34r: . (Or, perhaps I do)

 

Probably you have hard evidence; if so, please share it with us.

(sales sheets, databases, obscure documents/deals, etc.).

 

But, from the ORBX site:

FTX: EU England Released

16 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

 

FTX England breaks all sales records for Orbx!

Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

 

I'd just like to say a big THANK YOU to our community of fantastic customers for their tremendous support of Orbx. Over the launch weekend we sold more copies of FTX England in that timeframe that any other product we've released, easily at a rate of 3-4 times faster than any other FTX region!

 

FYI: Analysts estimate  GTA5 sold 15 million copies in 3 days, same time period!

And I bought FTX ENG on Jan 4th, 2013!  

 

(Without any English photoscenery and without VFR London and stuff it was an attractive all-in-one scenery/cityscape/airports improvement package for me.)

 

My point is, ORBX rushed an unfinished product to the (Christmas) market 2012. It was completed only two months after initial release (that's in 2013 already) and still SimHQ "rewarded" this policy by means of its  "Best Scenery and Terrain 2012" award.

Folks from England....I live in the heart of the Orbx PNW region and travel and know NRM, CRM, PFJ extremely well.  The Orbx products are wonderful representations of those areas.  I love them, best thing that ever happened to FSX.

 

However, in real life, the colours of these areas are not quite right, the roads are not quite right, the trees are not quite right, the buildings are not quite right, the rivers aren't that wide the lakes don't look like that, there are so many missing landmarks, bridges missing....etc, etc, all the same stuff being criticized for the EU series.  Picky, picky, picky.  So bloody what!  Rhetorical question....do you realize how much money you would have to pay to develop an ENG, SCO etc that was exactly like real life?  Heck even photo scenery is nothing like reality.  Reality check, please.

 

I am really feeling that there is a disconnect of opinion on quality with realistic expectations of what $30 or so will buy. 

 

Certainly, the developers can benefit from hearing about things of interest from the market place...ie, I would like to see sharper textures, more custom landmarks (individually must be made and placed into scenery at a huge cost in time and effort - I know this because I do it for freeware), etc. (recognize you likely won't ever see these because there isn't a big enough market to make it worthwhile to do these things.

 

Trying to understand the EU series criticisms, and judging by some of this negative opinion on the EU series, particularly from users that live in the area, perhaps there is a lack of knowledge on how FSX works and what is and is not possible inside this sim.

 

Take a look at GEX, UTX, FSScene.  These folks put huge effort toward improving the sim with reworked textures, landclass, vector elements....and compare this work to FTX... and then what is your conclusion about value for $$ of each of these products.

 

Hands down FTX regions best of any of above, and the EU series are, given the work required to customize toward real world look and feel is fantastic - are they less quality than PNW etc. - given the level of customization required to make these areas look and feel correctly - IMHO no they are not.

 

cheers

Folks from England....I live in the heart of the Orbx PNW region and travel and know NRM, CRM, PFJ extremely well.  The Orbx products are wonderful representations of those areas.  I love them, best thing that ever happened to FSX.

 

However, in real life, the colours of these areas are not quite right, the roads are not quite right, the trees are not quite right, the buildings are not quite right, the rivers aren't that wide the lakes don't look like that, there are so many missing landmarks, bridges missing....etc, etc, all the same stuff being criticized for the EU series.  Picky, picky, picky.  So bloody what!  Rhetorical question....do you realize how much money you would have to pay to develop an ENG, SCO etc that was exactly like real life?  Heck even photo scenery is nothing like reality.  Reality check, please.

 

I am really feeling that there is a disconnect of opinion on quality with realistic expectations of what $30 or so will buy. 

 

Certainly, the developers can benefit from hearing about things of interest from the market place...ie, I would like to see sharper textures, more custom landmarks (individually must be made and placed into scenery at a huge cost in time and effort - I know this because I do it for freeware), etc. (recognize you likely won't ever see these because there isn't a big enough market to make it worthwhile to do these things.

 

Trying to understand the EU series criticisms, and judging by some of this negative opinion on the EU series, particularly from users that live in the area, perhaps there is a lack of knowledge on how FSX works and what is and is not possible inside this sim.

 

Take a look at GEX, UTX, FSScene.  These folks put huge effort toward improving the sim with reworked textures, landclass, vector elements....and compare this work to FTX... and then what is your conclusion about value for $$ of each of these products.

 

Hands down FTX regions best of any of above, and the EU series are, given the work required to customize toward real world look and feel is fantastic - are they less quality than PNW etc. - given the level of customization required to make these areas look and feel correctly - IMHO no they are not.

 

cheers

 

A sober and nail on the head comment. Well said!

Folks from England....I live in the heart of the Orbx PNW region and travel and know NRM, CRM, PFJ extremely well.  The Orbx products are wonderful representations of those areas.  I love them, best thing that ever happened to FSX.

 

However, in real life, the colours of these areas are not quite right, the roads are not quite right, the trees are not quite right, the buildings are not quite right, the rivers aren't that wide the lakes don't look like that, there are so many missing landmarks, bridges missing....etc, etc, all the same stuff being criticized for the EU series.  Picky, picky, picky.  So bloody what!  Rhetorical question....do you realize how much money you would have to pay to develop an ENG, SCO etc that was exactly like real life?  Heck even photo scenery is nothing like reality.  Reality check, please.

 

 

Well, it's a long time since we've seen this blarney assumption that the problem is all about "English people having unrealistic expectations" ... seriously Brian, what a load of hot air. I am sure at least two thirds of the people who are disatisfied with FTX ENG haven't even set foot in the UK.

 

For Orbx to announce this was their "fastest selling product" (at the time), it suggests that it wasn't just people from the tiny nation of England who were buying it, and it wasn't just English people who found it disappointing.

 

The "national" point isn't made for any other product that a slice of the community feel was disappointing, so I don't know why a small minority keep harping on with this quite frankly simplistic and unfounded 'theory'.

 

I was disappointed with Aerosoft's Antarctica X product, and guess what .... I'm not an 'Antarctican', upset because by favourite glacier wasn't featured ......

 

We all know where you got this 'theory' from - yep, Jon Venema banged out this shallow point repeatedly for the first few weeks that people were reporting "hang on, this isn't right", about FTX EU.

 

....particularly from people who live in the area.

You have absolutely nothing to back that up with. This sort of complete garbage contributes to national and cultural divisions in hobbies and communities like this - totally unnecessarily.

Bryan Wallis, what a nice post, a bit of fresh honest air from "The Great White North" - thank you!

 

I don´t get it, most of the people here have almost grown up with MS Flightsim, from the beginning with Megs Field, that was awesome, wasn´t it?  :rolleyes:

 

I ask you all, because I´m just a newbie, 2 years with FSX, and I´m still having these totally mindblowing moments of 100% immersion where I forget everything around me, wife, dog, cat, unpaid bills, etc. etc.

 

Maybe that´s good, that I actually never experienced them good ol´days:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e2jzkELDfU

 

:lol:

My point is, ORBX rushed an unfinished product to the (Christmas) market 2012. It was completed only two months after initial release (that's in 2013 already) and still SimHQ "rewarded" this policy by means of its "Best Scenery and Terrain 2012" award.

 

To date, I think PNW has been through 5 service packs.  When Central Rockies was released, there were no bridges at all on I-90 between Missoula, MT and Coeur D'Alene, ID a major VFR corridor.  When PAKT was released, it was without a big chunk of the town.  When S45 was released it was without a major chunk of photoreal area.  And so on...

 

Point is, many sceneries have been released intentionally unfinished when they were deemed complete enough to be a satisfying product and then corrected later.  The first UK release was hardly unique in this regard for Orbx and it was certainly not a new strategy.  There's always a tradeoff between getting a product out (and to waiting simmers who, let's be honest, are often pushing hard for releases), timing for holidays (and again, we the buyers are often pushing for these dates as well) and maximizing revenue.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to suggest that England was "good enough" when released.  Don't own it and am unlikely to, so I really don't know.  Just pointing out the "unfinished" thing has been a pretty standard practice - and one that in the case of the products I previously mentioned which I do own I was more than happy with.

 

Scott

Scott, I can easily agree to most points in your post. IIRC, initial release of PAKT was even announced in all fairness as lacking a few features which were promised to be delivered post-release - and that's what happened.

 

My original post was a reply to a question how FTX ENG could receive the SimHQ "Best scenery Award" for 2012. And I consider that award "amazing" since it was granted when FTX ENG was still in an unfinished state. I have no idea how SimHQ could have figured out the quality of the final product, still weeks away from completion. So my post was rather about SimHQ's award than about ORBX' region.

 

If I had been in the shoes of SimHQ I'd have waited until completion of FTX ENG and may have considered it a candidate for the 2013-reward (the year ENG actually got finished). But what happened IRL seems like "SimHQ bowing to pre-Christmas 2012 ORBX marketing strategies" to me ...

 

 

But what happened IRL seems like "SimHQ bowing to pre-Christmas 2012 ORBX marketing strategies" to me ...

 

Fair enough.  I'm not naive enough to say that can't be the case, but its also possible they simply did a rather superficial review, based in part on hype that came from both Orbx and expectant simmers.  I recall an awful lot of "it's Orbx and it's England so it MUST be wonderful" sentiment back then.

 

 

Scott

Hummm!

 

We all know where you got this 'theory' from - yep, Jon Venema banged out this shallow point repeatedly for the first few weeks that people were reporting "hang on, this isn't right", about FTX EU.

 

 

Nope! Couldn't be further from the truth...anyone who knows my history with said owner would know that is a ROFL comment.

 

"English people having unrealistic expectations" ... seriously Brian, what a load of hot air. I am sure at least two thirds of the people who are disatisfied with FTX ENG haven't even set foot in the UK.

 

 

Never said that....please don't quote incorrectly.   FYI - Bryan is spelt with a "y" not and "i".

 

"fltsimguy" said....Trying to understand the EU series criticisms, and judging by some of this negative opinion on the EU series, particularly from users that live in the area, perhaps there is a lack of knowledge on how FSX works and what is and is not possible inside this sim.

 

 

- Above is what I said...it is not attributed to "English" people..., it is attributed to "users that live in the area" (ie users that know first hand what it looks like on the ground, heck they could be French, Dutch, German, I don't know)....and specifically uses "perhaps" to reference why some users might not have a full appreciation of what it takes to design and compile this sort of scenery.

Hello Bryan,

 

I'm not sure why you're addressing the "Folks from England" with your post, when the FTX EU stuff (especially ENG and WLS) is considered the poorest from Orbx by people all over the world. And please, don't tar the English with the same brush that you might many Americans and Canadians, who don't even know where other countries are, let alone visit them. You may not know it, but the English are renowned explorers and I myself travel - slightly further than the next county or state I might add - so I'm fully aware what other parts of the world look like. With that knowledge, I'm also fully aware that each respective FTX product is not accurate and that's because it's not photo real scenery; I would think most people, if not everybody, that have posted in this thread know that fact already. If not, then it's been mentioned enough times in the last five pages to alert them to it.

 

And with that, the rest of your post joins the others that also missed the point of this thread.

 

I think I can speak for those here that get the point I set out to make from the start, when I say: I am not even the slightest bit concerned with accuracy - this has been said time and time again - if I was I'd be flying over photo real scenery. My point, which I thought was made completely transparent after posting screenshots, is the blatant drop in workmanship quality when comparing the FTX EU regions with earlier Orbx outings. I was merely enquiring if other FTX simmers were also concerned that this would be the norm with future Orbx releases. And if Orbx choose to hand future projects out to other developers then this may well be the case. As much as SIM720's lack of experience and/or skill may be the cause of the apparent decrease in overall quality, you have to remember, Orbx permitted the EU stuff to be released under it's own, prestigious FTX label. And if Orbx want to continue with such endeavours (venture is probably a more apt word in this instance) then maybe it should first listen to the significant amount of customers who aren't happy.    

 

Your opinion is as valid as the next persons and if you're truly happy with FTX EU then good for you, but I'm amazed you honestly believe the EU products are of an equal quality to previous regions.   

 

 

And please, don't tar the English with the same brush that you might many Americans and Canadians, who don't even know where other countries are, let alone visit them.

 

Uhh.... if you're going to complain because you think someone inappropriately slurred a given nationality (he didn't, BTW - speaking of missed points) it's probably best if you don't turn around and do the same, don't you think?  Sorry, but as a well-traveled, geographically literate US citizen I don't like getting tarred with that kind of broad brush either.  Know what I mean?

 

Scott

You weren't tarred with that brush, Scott, I said "many", not all, which is quite true. 

 

Besides, Bryan addresses the English people and then goes on to explain how the FTX PNW isn't like that in real life, like we're all some kind of ignorant fools. And let's be fair here, Bryan's last post didn't exactly read without giving off a whiff of condescension, did it?

 

I believe my comment was fair and didn't overstep the mark. But I apologise for any offence caused.