They have the illusion that if you buy Orbx, you will buy nothing else. Of course that is utter nonsense. But that is there illusion, not the end user.

For one, their installers do not create back ups of fsx core files, eg terrain cfg etc. To remove a region takes a degree in computer programming. Try and remove PNW, and look at the hoops you have to jump through.

Cool by me. Uninstalling PNW is not an option. I stop flying ORBX regions in NA and I stop flying SIM. Unless something better comes along. ORBX scenery is a requirement on my computer and not an option.

 

Default FSX = quit flying for me.

Photoreal without autogen = quit flying for me.

 

I can't fly without ORBX regions. But I am GA all the way. Small charter and short haul commuter below FL200. Whereas I imagine Tubeies will have other thoughts as it's a completely different thing. If I spent most of my flights at FL350 in a 737, I would want Photoreal and big upgraded airports and 3rd party AI and ground crew stuff. Less interrested in ORBX perhaps.

 

But the Global with Vector is here and might have wider appeal.

 

C.

Love? Seriously?

 

To each his own I guess :smile:

 

I want professionalism and dedication like in any other company on Earth.

 

I want Orbx to create cutting edge sceneries and at the same time be succesful as a business.

If price and quality match, it is a win-win as I see it, otherwise I do not buy anything.

 

Anyway 'love' will just add another $10 on the salesprice.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but, Orbx is the company you just described, more so than most in the sim world.

 

And believe me...they add $20 for the "love".

Right, OK. For those that need a visual example of what I'm (and many others on the web) talking about, I've taken four random screenshots from FTX Australia, New Zealand, the PNW and England. They were all taken using almost identical settings (weather, altitude, season, etc) and the only conscious effort made was to grab shots whilst flying over similar areas in each region. There may be some of you that think I could have done this or that to better prove my point, but seriously, I'm not inclined to spend anymore time taking screenshots in an attempt to visually bolster a point that is already accepted by many.

 

These shots (although not comprehensive) give a good impression of the overall quality of each region. The obvious drop in quality exhibited by FTX England is due to the fuzzy textures, causing indistinct roads, parking areas and gardens; the lack of contrast exacerbates this problem. In my opinion, these single shots from each region clearly show that FTX England is not of the same quality that Orbx customers have come to expect when they spend their hard earned money.

 

And this is my point: when I buy a Heinz soup that I've not tasted before I know it's going to be good because it's Heinz. That's an example of consumer trust and confidence in a brand name. This is something that Orbx has lost on me since the EU releases. And even if I still trust that the Orbx brand is synonymous with good quality, the confidence to buy is certainly gone.

      

 

 FTX Australia

 

 

FTX New Zealand

 

 

FTX PNW

 

 

FTX England

 

If you seriously want an answer this post should have been in an email to Orbx staff. They are the only ones who can give you an answer...

 

Oh, I did. I spoke to the main man himself, Mr Venema. Apart from admitting that SIM720 were new to the task of FTX development, I didn't get much else in terms of clarity. Pretty much the answer you or I would expect from a politician. 

 

Besides, does the admission of new developers (i.e. SIM720) make it OK to release software that is of a lesser quality than all previously released work? A quality that Orbx customers buy in to with confidence.

AU and PNW clear winners in those pics...but then again, most of us already knew that.

 

I should add, it does look like they specifically and accurately hand placed trees in neighborhoods to help blend a little better. If they had done that with EU and NZ, it would have been much more convincing.

 

And those roads are not good... :wacko:

Right, OK. For those that need a visual example of what I'm (and many others on the web) are talking about, I've taken four random screenshots from FTX Australia, New Zealand, the PNW and England. They were all taken using almost identical settings (weather, altitude, season, etc) and the only conscious effort made was to grab shots whilst flying over similar areas in each region. There may be some of you that think I could have done this or that to better prove my point, but seriously, I'm not inclined to spend anymore time taking screenshots in an attempt to visually bolster a point that is already accepted by many.

 

These shots (although not comprehensive) give a good impression of the overall quality of each region. The obvious drop in quality exhibited by FTX England is due to the fuzzy textures, causing indistinct roads, parking areas and gardens; the lack of contrast exacerbates this problem. In my opinion, these single shots from each region clearly show that FTX England is not of the same quality that Orbx customers have come to expect when they spend their hard earned money.

 

And this is my point: when I buy a Heinz soup that I've not tasted before I know it's going to be good because it's Heinz. That's an example of consumer trust and confidence in a brand name. This is something that Orbx has lost on me since the EU releases. And even if I still trust that the Orbx brand is synonymous with good quality, the confidence is certainly gone.

      

 

 FTX Australia

 

 

 

FTX New Zealand

 

 

 

FTX PNW

 

 

 

FTX England

 

 

 

Keep in mind that European cities are much more "cluttered" than those of the US. The streets are narrower and more organic, the houses smaller and packed closer together. This makes it harder to create realistic autogen and can make the textures look fuzzy.

 

My biggest gripe with FTX EU is  that you can clearly see the better use of "vectorized" landclass in New Zealand and PNW. Look closely at how the urban texture interact with major vector roads. In FTX EU the vector roads and urban landclass are treated more like two separate entities.

'Love' in this instance meant that they don't give a 's**t any more. They don't CARE as once they did. Orbx was born of a passion for FS. You are getting 'professionalism' as in 'Show me the money'

Ron, I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

 

Are Orbx products in general of lesser quality now, than in 'the good old days'?

 

What should they care about, that they do not care about now?

 

Could you elaborate on the expression 'Show me the money' in relation to Orbx products?

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but, Orbx is the company you just described, more so than most in the sim world.

 

And believe me...they add $20 for the "love".

I know.

Wow! The difference is very noticeable. Australia and PNW feel a lot more polished. Those roads in England and New Zealand look very unrealistic.

Yes, the significant difference in quality does smack you in the face, doesn't it? The immediate lack of refinement and clarity is the first thing I noticed last year upon firing up EU ENG. Once this was realised, it was hard not to notice more quality issues.

 

 

 

Among other things I was interested in what precisely made StormVR6 write a sentence like this:

 

"it does look a bit messy down there".

 

Now do you see what I meant by my previous comment?

Right, OK. For those that need a visual example of what I'm (and many others on the web) talking about, I've taken four random screenshots from FTX Australia, New Zealand, the PNW and England. They were all taken using almost identical settings (weather, altitude, season, etc) and the only conscious effort made was to grab shots whilst flying over similar areas in each region. There may be some of you that think I could have done this or that to better prove my point, but seriously, I'm not inclined to spend anymore time taking screenshots in an attempt to visually bolster a point that is already accepted by many.

 

Thanks for taking the time to produce these screenshots.

Shown like this, no doubt that PNW is of superior quality here and ENG is of comparatively lesser quality.

 

From this shot of ENG, then yes it does look more 'messy' than usual.

 

Maybe its not such a big surprise that SIM720 did not get any more contracts after all.

Briefly checking Wales its very similar, but Scotland looks much better though.

 

 

'Love' in this instance meant that they don't give a 's**t any more. They don't CARE as once they did. Orbx was born of a passion for FS. You are getting 'professionalism' as in 'Show me the money'

 

Well, but is that really a fair assessment of all their current products? I'd say the whole FTX EU thing hasn't worked as they/we had expected (putting it mildly), and I'm really not surprised that Orbx and SIM720 are now going their separate ways.

 

The quality of their NA regions, however, has been rather consistent, and SAK is believed by many to be Orbx's best product so far. They keep updating their older stuff, including the freeware airports, and I don't really see any signs of dwindling passion or lack of 'love' from the more seasoned developers. Plus, there are some new names, and I'm really impressed by some of their debut contributions -- have you seen the freeware stuff from Vlad Mlady, for example?

 

I'm far from being an Orbx fan-[you know what, it seems to be considered a swearword here], it's just that the quality of the EU regions isn't really representative of all the work they do, and some of the criticism seems a bit unfair.

 

Just my two cents, anyway...

Tym

I want to make something else very clear here. I am an Orbx fan, insomuch that I only fly over FTX terrain. 

 

This thread from the outset was always going to be speculative, it had to be. And unless an authority from Orbx joins us in open discussion then it can only be speculation. But that fact has not made this thread any less valid and I believe that real constructive criticism is being aired here. It may not be the kind of speak Orbx want to hear but there's no denying that both Orbx and it's customers can benefit from such threads.

 

Within this civilised discussion, that hasn't required any interruptive moderation, we've been allowed to give opinions that Orbx can choose to listen or not. Whatever it chooses to do, it will know from threads like this that many customers are not happy; some are less enthused and for some, where impulse once took precedence in FTX purchasing, consideration now lies. Of course, there are some of us who still hanker for the next FTX installment and to a certain extent I'm part of that group. Let's get one thing straight, Orbx stuff is very good, no argument there and I sincerely hope that all future FTX regions are at least equal to the likes of PNW, maybe some will eclipse SAK, even. I just wish people like John Venema would allow themselves to be fully open with their customers and, more importantly, allow their customers to be fully open with them.

 

We know Orbx are still capable of raising the bar to a new level (yes, SAK, I'm looking at you) but are all future works going to be of this standard? I hope so, really, I do. 

My concern wasn't really that Northern Norway wouldn't be released but that the quality of Southern Norway might not be at PNW standards... ^_^

 

 

Thanks for the link!

 

EDIT

Hm...

 

"The rest of Norway is still up in the air. We have to  honour our contract with them of course, so I chose NOS over the Netherlands since it's a nicer place to fly, but as far as the rest of Norway goes, we may tackle it as part of a broader Scandinavia product which gives better value ..."

 

Better value sounds like less quality... So Norway South will be the last region Sim720 will EVER make... How eager would you be to make the best of it if you were on that team...? :blink: This doesn't sound good at all. Could well be I will keep on using the great freeware...

You can be darn sure that I won't be buying NOS if NON isn't carved in stone on the roadmap. Big things are on the way with NO freeware, so maybe one just have to stick to that. But I remain optimistic for now. Let's wait and see what Sim720 can do before we judge them. But a little Holger magic could never hurt the project.

Holger is still around.  He's working on Northern Cali,  he just was not as involved in EU as he was in the other areas.

 

I think we need a reality check though.  EU is NOT abjectly horrible, and other than other ORBX products, I can't think of any other landclass based sceneries that are better.  let's see what is done with the rest of Ireland and Norway before we write off Sim720 completely m'kay?

 

I agree ShawnG.  What a dizzying thread.  I can think if tons of opposing opinions on real world topics that generate the same degree divergence.  Yes I love those oil pipelines.  No I don't like those oil pipelines.

 

Orbx EU is a great product and so is PNW, thank goodness I have them. The underlying real world texture and landclass is totally different.  Just because a 1000 yr old wood in EU is well not there or on the other side of the road, really who bloody cares?  Obviously some do.  I don't, I want something that matches the look and feel of the real world and if it happens to look close to reality so much the better.  I have managed to fly VFR in EU and located enough objects or towns, rivers, train tracks, roads or whatever to survive the flight, in crappy weather.

 

Gees these guys are trying to make a living from a flightsim game.  They raise there prices or cut their regions into smaller blocks, I don't buy them and their revenues go down.  Let the market place decide.

Love? Seriously?

 

To each his own I guess :smile:

 

I want professionalism and dedication like in any other company on Earth.

 

I want Orbx to create cutting edge sceneries and at the same time be succesful as a business.

If price and quality match, it is a win-win as I see it, otherwise I do not buy anything.

 

Anyway 'love' will just add another $10 on the salesprice.

Hey Michael, love, passion, commitment , these are essential aspects of a successful business or enterprise, and don't misinterpret the term success as profit. For many, including myself, success is not just about a good profit margin, regular cash flow, continuous development, but also about taking a pride in what you do and that pride showing in the product which is supported by the customer. I work for myself and have always believed that the love of what you do is the absolute essence of good business. Without love and passion you will simply be an average player, it's the passion and love that makes businesses shine above their competitors :wink:

Interesting topic.  I have all of the Orbx’s regions, all of their NA airports and FTXGlobal textures.

 

After installing the first EU region the differences to me were immediately apparent compared to NA, AU and NZSI/NI, but I thought perhaps they were using new techniques and source types, and possibly this new way would allow more output of a good finished product in shorter time, always a good thing to do if you’re a business as opposed to a hobby. I wasn’t overly bent out of shape about it all, and still am not as it beats the pants off of default FSX.

 

The more I flew EU ENG the more I noticed a lack of depth to ground features in many cases. Case in point, rape seed fields always looked a bit flat, a wash of yellow, lacking the ability to suggest a real field, lacking texture (and here I’m talking about the visual quality not the software term normally associated with the word texture(s)). This flatness gave a different look than I had experienced with previous regions.

 

At some point I recalled a conversation I had with a friend who is into photography (and I’m not) many years ago that finally clarified the situation for me after I recalled it. She said in black and white and depending on the technical aspects of the camera and its lens, and the film stock used, there’s a grain structure in the film that can be fine to coarse. Used correctly this grain in B&W can give the impression of depth, give a 3 dimensional quality to a 2 dimensional picture. Color has a very hard time duplicating this quality and video is worse than color film in this aspect. Of course color has other strengths B&W doesn’t, like it’s the way we see in real life, barring any color blindness issues. And video can be squeaky clean, sometimes so clean it scrubs the fine details away. And then there’s 3D in the home, but that’s a whole other can o’ worms. Orbx EU to my eyes doesn't have quite the same grain structure the previous regions had.

 

I run 2 complete sim rigs, one for Orbx only, the other for scenery products including GEX, UTX, Aerosoft, Fly Tampa, and a few other odds and ends, only.  No changing settings in the cfg anymore, no more screwing around turning things on and off, no more “is there a conflict between the different scenerys”. I found the sweet spot for each box (and F1 and Aerosoft, and the other products all work fine together at the same cfg settings. Orbx likes some different cfg settings to run at its best with my hardware and the way it’s set up.

 

My impression is that the F1 and Aerosoft products have that grain quality in spades but lack the hand massaged autogen placement of structures and special visual landmarks etc., (Iceland, Antarctica and Lukla by Aerosoft aside, which I really like) that Orbx provides. For example; Yellowstone Park in Orbx NA, with or without the addon airport, is done in a way that contributes significantly to the illusion of reality.

 

I do some homework before I purchase addons and am rarely disappointed. I do see a difference readily within these Orbx products but it’s not life or death for me. Smooth flying comes first, Star Trek Holodeck like visuals come second. Anyway, that’s my take on the visual differences between EU and the other Orbx regions.