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Dragonmount

Nemeth Designs Eurocopter EC135?

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I wanted a reasonably realistic (within fsx limitations) civil helicopter to fly that wasn't wasn't the default. I raelize FSX doesn't do helo's very well, and was thinking that Nemeth seems to be just a helicopter company, so I thought theirs would be better than most, and this one seems to get decent reviews as well. Opinions?

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I don't know the Nemeth EC-135, but in general, you can do better than Nemeth - their flight models tend to be odd and they're not great about fixing problems (though the visuals are great, especially with their Milviz-designed helos).  By far the best third-party helo for FSX is the Dodosim Bell 206B.  It's old and looks it, especially in the VC, though I find I spend most of my time looking through the bubble at the outside world and don't mind the VC too much.  The flight model is extraordinary - it was programmed entirely outside of FSX, so it overcomes all of the FSX helo limitations.  What's especially nice is that the realism scales - there are five realism settings, with the lowest close to default, and the highest representing full realism (and difficulty).  That means you can adjust the realism as you come up the learning curve.

 

Also worth a look are the helos by Cerasim.  Aerosoft does a Huey that's controversial - some people like it almost as much as the Dodo, some don't like it at all.

 

Finally, if you go over to Hovercontrol (great helosim community website), there's a freeware program called Helicopter Total Realism, which uses profiles to replace the flight models of many FSX helos with higher-fidelity alternatives.  Both the program and the profiles are available in their library.

 

Hope this helps.

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Great summary Alan!

 

I'll second a lot of what Alan has mentioned.  In regards to the Dodosim Bell 206B, don't let the dated graphics keep you away - I find that on full realism, it's enough of a handful to fly that you'll never notice.  There's a ton of depth, and systems are replicated to a point where you can do very realistic start-ups and shutdowns, which I find quite enjoyable, since it's really a pretty simple helicopter.  I wish all FSX helicopters were to this standard in regards to the flight model and systems.  Sadly of course, that's not the case.

 

Cera Sim makes great helicopters as well, and they keep improving them with every release.  The latest from them, the UH-60, has been getting a lot of airtime from me.  It is quite well done, has a high level of systems replication, albeit the flight model isn't as advanced as the Dodosim is (but then, nothing else in FSX is).

 

Nemeth helicopters are quite nice to look at - as Alan mentioned, the flight models aren't quite as good, but they are generally okay to fly with if you're not too picky.

 

I own helicopters from all of the developers; but my general rule is that I'm more picky on the smaller helicopters than the large ones.  The bit-too-easy flight models on a lot of the helicopters are simply more believable to me on the larger ones, which often should feel a bit more sluggish.  Not to mention, in real life many of them have a high degree of pilot assist - I can just imagine that's all turned on. ^_^  It's hard to stay away from any of the developers, even the older Virtavia models (which really aren't up to current graphical standards), if you're a fan of a particular type.

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I gotta throw in a word about Cera... I bought their Blackhawk last week, just to find out they never tested multiplayer and as a result, the aircraft crashes fsx when trying to engage in a multiplayer session. It's been two months since release and they're reluctant to fix it, blaming the sim for not being able to handle the 'complexity' while in multiplayer. AHA... then there's PMDG 777 that works just fine in multiplayer and is 10 times more complex. GO FIGURE.

 

Now they're sending me some experimental fixes ... like I paid 35$ to be a beta tester. It's really aggravating and I will not buy into them again.  :angry:

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To come back the the original topic, the EC-135: I have it, and as Alan said, it's a nice looking thing, but that's about it. It flies like the default Bell, but has indeed some odd behavior. E.g. when increasing power I tend to get severe random rotation which is impossible to compensate for, except by reducing power again. Note that I am aware of the fact that increasing power will cause a counter-rotation in a real helicopter, but this rotation can be compensated - however, in the EC-135 I am not able to do exactly this!

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I gotta throw in a word about Cera... I bought their Blackhawk last week, just to find out they never tested multiplayer and as a result, the aircraft crashes fsx when trying to engage in a multiplayer session. It's been two months since release and they're reluctant to fix it, blaming the sim for not being able to handle the 'complexity' while in multiplayer. AHA... then there's PMDG 777 that works just fine in multiplayer and is 10 times more complex. GO FIGURE.

 

Now they're sending me some experimental fixes ... like I paid 35$ to be a beta tester. It's really aggravating and I will not buy into them again.  :angry:

 

Because, yes, they owe you multiplayer. Next time do your research before buying and complaining. There are many addons out there that are not compatible with muliplayer, literally tons of them. If you think you're a beta tester, you have no idea what they are or do. The company is being nice enough to try and please you. They are trying to hook you up, let YOU have a say in their development, and you come here and bash them?

 

The ingratitude of the entitled knows no bounds.

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Sorry, mr. beta tester, but I totally disagree. Further more, I find it offensive calling someone who pays hard earned cash "entitled" as if the product is given for free. "Hook me up" ? so, I'm not even granted for proper support? That's plain wrong. I'm entitled to a working product, I didn't ask for the moon. Help with development? this is a 'finished' product released 2 months ago. There are addons of all tiers and price points. Essentially, there should be some kind of logic behind pricing vs features. Multiplayer is a key feature in FS and I expect devs to make sure multiplayer works with their addons (more so on a 35$+ addon). In fact I did my research, but missed it (can happen unfortunately). Their website lacks info and there's nowhere an official note regarding mutliplayer. They didn't bother creating a 'lite' version that does work in multiplayer, nor they show much enthusiasm in currently doing so. I won't spend countless hours on beta testing it now... it's not my job, I'm the end user. Aside for multiplayer not working, their chopper is very good. Clearly a quality helicopter developer.

 

If you plan on starting a flame war here, well, think twice because I'm not going to play along...

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No flame war, I understand why you would be disappointed. But why not just say "hey guys, just a heads up it is not yet multiplayer compatible, but they've sent some files and are trying to make it so", or something like that? I just don't understand bashing them when they are actually trying to include what you want in their product. I think it's great they are doing that for you. The best part is you have a say in how it will go, and be a part of the process. That's pretty cool IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, to the OP, sorry for a small hijack. I have to agree with everyone on their lists, the Dodosim B206 is the top product for sure, with Cera (B212, B412, B222, and UH-60) and the Aerosoft Huey below it. Below them you get into Nemeth's products, and then Virtavia (former Alphasim) products. If you love a certain model and don't mind if it's more eye candy then depth, you'd still enjoy the lower end products.

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No flame war, I understand why you would be disappointed. But why not just say "hey guys, just a heads up it is not yet multiplayer compatible, but they've sent some files and are trying to make it so", or something like that? I just don't understand bashing them when they are actually trying to include what you want in their product. I think it's great they are doing that for you. The best part is you have a say in how it will go, and be a part of the process. That's pretty cool IMO.

It's cool when you're a beta tester, given the product free to help out with... you're then entitled to nothing really. Not so cool when pay for a supposedly finished product. That's all I'm saying. If you saw their reluctant replies you'd be unhappy too.. trust me. They clearly don't feel compelled whatsoever to help out once the deal is done. 35$ I could buy the twotter with. :(

 

Anyway, it's becoming an hijack and I do slightly regret the first post.

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The initial post on this topic led me to about 2-1/2 hours of time in the Dodosim 206 last night, flying around one of my Black Friday acquisitions - Aerosoft's Los Angeles X.  I was extremely pleased to see my lock of 30fps hold.  That particular scenery add-on is made for helicopters - all those helipads on the skyscrapers... I'll be honest, I would of caused panic in the streets below on my first few landings, but after a bit I was getting into it good.  Then I rounded the Hollywood letters, before heading to the coast; flew south to the shipyards and then headed out to Catalina Island...

 

All in all, it was one of my better evenings spent flying in recent months!

 

I was also going to mention that I just saw a post over on the Hovercontrol forums of a work in progress on a rebuild of the model for the Dodosim 206.. don't know how far away they are, but that will be a very welcome thing. ^_^

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Speaking of helicopters, I would get acquinted with Digital Combat Simulation.

 

I second the recommendation for DCS - great helos, better than anything in FSX, even the Dodo.

 

Also, if you're serious about helos, X-Plane 10 is definitely worth a look.  X-Plane definitely has its quirks and shortcomings, but one of its real strengths is the helicopter flight modeling.  The best XP10 helos are extraordinarly fluid, and I've heard several RL helo pilots that they come much closer to the helo-flying experience than FSX.  If you go that route, try the ND Art & Technology BK117, or the AS 350 and Robinson R22 by Dreamfoil.  The MD 902 by Dawson Designs is also quite nice.  There may be others - I've been away from X-Plane for the past few months.  One other tip re: X-Plane helos - don't be shy about tuning your controller sensitivities and null zones to suit you.  The "realistic" settings make some of the helos unflyable.  Some challenge is good, but "more real than real" just isn't... ah... real.

 

Again, hope this is helpful.

 

 

I just saw a post over on the Hovercontrol forums of a work in progress on a rebuild of the model for the Dodosim 206.

 

That's great news.  I've been away from helos for a bit - am trying to come up to speed on airliners, finally - but I'd love to try a refreshed Dodo.  I'll go over to Hovercontrol and see what's up.  Thanks for the tip.  

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Will also give a +1 for DCS, best helo's ever! The Ka50 is the most manoeuvrable aircraft you'll ever fly, amazing!

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This was an FSX question. Anyway, after seeing the posts about Cera sim, and the 222 looked interesting I wound up getting that, it's more challenging, and seems to be more fun than the default helicopters. Which is what I wanted. Thanks for the recommendations. I may wind up getting another heli from them in the future.

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