As 2004 draws to a close we see the 'The 767 Pilot in Command Support Forum' has followed it's fellow support forum (PSS) in becoming a land where the traditioanl 'happy' smiley will be the only icon displayed in a post and anything remotely contraversial is simply deleted before it appears. I guess the makers of the LDS757 should spend more time creating the aircraft instead of examining posts for favourable content.I expect this will be my final post and it will not last long for two resaons (at least):1. It is in the incorrect forum2. It is critical of 'happy lands'If that is the case so be it. C'est la vie!!Andy b

HiI`m not too happy about whats going on there either.A thirty day ban on the idiots whould have been a more considered solution in my opinion.I tried several times to tell people to not get so nervous and that the wait would be worth it but to no avail.Why punish us?I just hope that this policy is just until the 763 gets released and that things get back to some semblence of sanity.A PSS style forum is nothing but a bad idea to me.Troy

AndyI havent been really following this so this comment is pretty general.There is constructive discussion and frankly stupidity and childish behaviour.You make your own decision on why the changes were made to the forum?Peter

I am always amazed at some of the attitudes I see in these forums. What possible justification would there be for wanting, allowing or otherwise accepting "contraversial" topics in a Vendor's SUPPORT forum? PSS and Wade and company have made the decision that they don't want to put up with the BS they have repeatedly seen in thier forums. How can you possibly question that? It seems to me that there is a minority in this community who want to be able to say and do anything that moves them at the moment, without regard for others, or AVSIM policies. Ain't going to happen. And if that forces you to choose to go elsewhere, well, you know what they say about the "door not hitting you on the way out".

I would have to disagree a bit on such censorship. The meaning behind the word Forum is "debate, discussion and round-table inter-action". If it is merely to praise and lay accolades at a developer's feet then it is no longer a forum, more of a guestbook or a marketing tool. Of course I don't condone a foul mouth or bad manners when issues arise but to go the other extreme and censor all negatives is just bad customer support. If the developer feels thier product is flawless they should just take down the forum like I have seen others done lately (and I don't think it was because the product was perfect).I will say this, I tip my wings to LAGO as they keep there forum wide-open. Even I wouldn't allow many of the comments I have read but it had forced the company to take action on some of their issues.

Forums are made available by those that choose to make them available. Their board, their rules, their choice. Period. Read and post at the ones you like and don't at the ones you don't. This isn't a "rights" thing. If you want a board just they way you want, then by all means, go open one yourself and deal with what you get.("You" being generalized, not any one person in particular)My two centsDave

The problem with internet forums and the faceless script is that it encourages bravado which wouldnt exist in a real world face to face contact.As such there are an element usually childish who use this medium to act like spoilt kids.Meet them real world and they would run and hide behind their mothers aprons.How does this attitude add to flight simulations?No one that I know is against polite and reasoned arguement but some of the dribble that erupts sounds like spoilt brats.For that reason and the very nature of the internet there has to be some sort of control which wouldnt be required in face to face contact.Its easy to be rude when you cant be seen!Peter

In this case, the product hasn't even been released... The whining was over release dates and got off into never-never land big time.DJ

"I would have to disagree a bit on such censorship"17 messages or so ago, you signed up to these forums. When you did, you agreed to our terms and conditions of use. "Censorship" would be an appropriate use of the word were this to be a forum paid for and run by the U.S. Government or the country of your choice paid for by your tax dollars. In case you have missed it, this is not a forum run by either the U.S. Government or any other government for that matter. It is a private forum and as such if you wish to participate, then you do so by our rules. I get so tired of those that claim censorhip and discrimination here. I am increasingly getting to the point where I think banning is a good thing. Having 17,500 community members here who want to learn and share is far better than having 18,000 of which some can't get it, don't like it, and have an endless agenda against everything that the community would rather stand for.Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out, 17 messages and all...

"Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out..."Hmmm... while I agree with your perspective about the forum rules, it might be time for a coffee break (and a spot of bourbon to keep it warm :-) ).Merry Christmas,Greg

>What possible justification would there be for>wanting, allowing or otherwise accepting "contraversial">topics in a Vendor's SUPPORT forum? PSS and Wade and company>have made the decision that they don't want to put up with the>BS they have repeatedly seen in thier forums. How can you>possibly question that? Tom,I certainly am not about to question this. But it all depends how they actually exercise this 'screening'. Because as practice shows once you get hold of this power your "threshold" of sensitivies tend to change and even only slightly 'difficult' post will get zapped. I tried to post a few times on the PSS forum and each time I tried to 'censor' myself before posting to avoid being 'controverial'. It never got through. I gave up. This taught me lesson to stay away from such forums/companies. Flight1 and PMDG are in my opinion exemplary vendors who know how to handle such situations. Merry Christmas!Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Okay Greg... I am taking your advise. Am going to go off coffee for an hour or two and substitute single malt Scotch. Will come back when my nose goes numb and post my further thoughts on this topic. Please do find a seat belt or two to strap yourself in with. :)

"...single malt Scotch."Works for me, too."Please do find a seat belt or two to strap yourself in with."I'm more fortunate than you... I can simply ignore it.Cheers,Greg

Which malt, Tom, I'll join you.Happy Holidays,Ed GreenKCLThttp://www.panelshop.com/DEV.jpg

It is unfortunate what has happened...However, this is how I view it. The PIC forum is simply no longer a forum, period. What you will be veiwing are simply email discussions between the public and the vendor that concern support issues only.Keep that in your mind, not a 'forum' but a listing of emails made public, and that will put things in perspective. With that said, I suspect and hope that the 'discussions concerning all aspects of the product' (i.e. Forum) will hopefully simply migrate to another section of the Avsim Forums.Too bad really, used to be one of the best disscussion areas for real world flight issue in the whole site. Maybe they will rethink it at a later date.