26APR14 - P3D Development Status Thread - Updated

[gdscei 0]

They're asinine because they're incredibly random, and honestly poorly thought through.  The landing light call is at the call of the airline SOP, and the PIC.  If I want them off earlier, I want them off earlier.  If I want them on to FL180, that's my call, and there are several good reasons for that call, depending on airspace congestion and weather conditions...but no...some random developer who probably hasn't flown a real plane in his life says "that's not right," so we have all these simmers who believe the 10,000 thing with landing lights is akin to an FAR.  I'm not joking.  I sat in a full cockpit simulator and got in an argument with the "captain" of the flight because he said it was an FAR to turn on landings lights at 10,000.

 

Guess who had a free round of drinks later?

 

Moreover, the landing rate thing is also incredibly misleading, and honestly, stupid.  Many VAs have this crap on their front pages as some mark of airman skill, and it's not at all.  Greasing landings has its place, but I'd prefer to see a board of pilots planting it down in tough weather, when that's what the situation calls for.  Go ask a real pilot what his or her best landing rate was.  I'm betting an aforementioned round of drinks you'll get a blank stare that suggests they know that you spend too much time around flight simulators, instead of a "oh hey, let me talk shop with a fellow pilot!!!"

 

Note Kyle - wasn't trying to argue with you, but just wanted clarification on what you said.

 

For me, considering I am a staff member of what I consider to be one of the most innovating VA's there are atm (call me biased), I do take some of this as insulting though. 

I think you are blaming the wrong group here: it is not the VA's that cause these policies to go into effect, it's the community. There is some general (albeit, not everytime correct) consensus that <10k feet equals landing light. But (I hope) most IRL pilots know that is simply not the case, because black-and-white does not exist in the real world.

My point is, it's not the VA's at fault here that these policies exist; it's the general mindset of the community. We've had this same "policy" (we have a point-based system for flights, so you get less points if you do not adhere to it), and as far as I know, we haven't had many people tell us they don't agree with this policy.

 

Also - before you jump in and say this point-based system makes it too much of a "game": well, I consider that up to the pilot flying. Some pilots do it for fun (= it's a game for them), others just want to simulate.

[Ian McPhail 55]

Wotan:  that's about the most sarcastic observation that I have read recently.  No wonder many members bow out when the blowtorch is so brutally applied.

 

However they are consumers, and they will buy on the basis of value not third degree burns.

[DrumsArt 270]

Ditto KriVa, I am out as well.

 

I have made a small protest against a fundamentalist argument, that is short on  empirical evidence but long on opinion - and is replete with intimations of severe punishment in this life and the next..

 

i will now wait for another forum to mention that the P3D version is released.

 

To all on this forum, I wish you and your ulcers well.

Hello Ian,

 

Thank you for your previous post and this one. I could not have said it better. That's exactly what it is ! And thanks for this breath of fresh air...

 

Best Regards,

 

Richard Portier

[WotanUK 289]

Wotan:  that's about the most sarcastic observation that I have read recently.  No wonder many members bow out when the blowtorch is so brutally applied.

 

However they are consumers, and they will buy on the basis of value not third degree burns.

 

Yeah, actually i did perhaps go over board.  I just get annoyed at the number of people who attempt to shut down discussions on discussion forums.  I have commented about abrupt people in the past and then i go and commit the same sin. 

 

I think I'll decline to comment further...

[liketofly1 11]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

See, in Austria we say: Wo kein Kläger - da kein Richter. which means:  ..If there no plaintiff -  there is no judge.........

 

But what actually would be much more interesting, since this is a 26APR14 dated thread named P3D Development Status Thread - Updated.Would be a Update to the Update...... even if it means:

 

No progress - some progress - huge progress - or what ever...............

[Kattz 132]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

See, in Austria we say: Wo kein Kläger - da kein Richter. which means:  ..If there no plaintiff -  there is no judge.........

 

But what actually would be much more interesting, since this is a 26APR14 dated thread named P3D Development Status Thread - Updated.Would be a Update to the Update...... even if it means:

 

No progress - some progress - huge progress - or what ever...............

 

+1000.

[nathanpinard 0]

You aren't going to get an update on a thread that was initially posted with an update in April. That would be a new thread, with a new date.

[marius.l 0]

Hello PMDG,

 

Any news about realising of PMDG products for P3D?

I don't try to "force" someone to answer but, please, guys, we are many PMGS's customers wich are using Prepar3D and we really want to know more!

 

Best Regards

 

Marius L.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

But any narrow fundamentalism and 'unarguable' positions are frightening to me.
 
Maybe it is me that needs the profile, because I react badly to people who claim the ability to interpret legally and easily matters that I am sure would be argued at length in a civil court.
 
How for instance would it interpret my use of P3D as a 2000hr private pilot with a Class One Instrument Rating?

 

If you spent about 30 seconds on the Prepar3D site, that would be abundantly clear: it's fine, for you.

 

As far interpreting matters goes, it all depends on the vaguery of the laws, and the legally-binding documents, of which a license agreement definitely is.  If a license says "you cannot use this to do X," then you cannot do X.  I don't care if that makes you react badly or not, that's pretty black and white, and doesn't take someone with a law degree.

 

What you then discuss, at length, is not about legality.  What you're discussing is what you could possibly get away with.  I'll go back to my speed limit example: the speed limit is 70 on a local highway. Everyone usually goes about 75, if not a hair under 80.  Policy officers usually don't go after you until you do about 10 over the limit where I live.  Could they go after me for going 76?  Absolutely.  The limit is 75.

 

Regardless of whether or not someone will chase you down, the vast majority of people I've seen are outside of the valid uses.  They might not get caught, but that doesn't make it okay.  I could certainly go get wasted drunk at a bar and drive my car home on back roads that I've never seen a cop on and probably not get caught...but again, that doesn't make it okay, or acceptable.

 

My argument isn't that people are going to get caught.  My argument is that, for most people, it is wrong.

 

Again, simple test:

Did you have/use ESP before you knew P3D existed?

Yes - probably a valid user.

No - probably not.

 

 

 

My point is, it's not the VA's at fault here that these policies exist; it's the general mindset of the community. We've had this same "policy" (we have a point-based system for flights, so you get less points if you do not adhere to it), and as far as I know, we haven't had many people tell us they don't agree with this policy.

 

Eh...not to get into too much of a chicken-egg scenario here, but I'd argue that rigid VA policies are more of the cause of incorrect information spread more than anything else.  That goes for the landing light thing, the 250/10 thing, and the idea that there's a "right" way to do just about everything.  Sure, the community asks for some sort of points-based-system, or at least hours accrual, but again, that's just because they expect it based on what has been provided in the past.

 

The fact that you don't see many people who don't agree with the policy isn't quite statistically significant.  That's like asking college kids if they think college is important.  Of course they do - they're there.  Same goes for your pilot group.  People who don't agree with the VA policy of points systems usually self-filter (like myself) and avoid the VA (or VAs in general), so it's no surprise you don't have much feedback about it.

[Baylorguy 39]

If you spent about 30 seconds on the Prepar3D site, that would be abundantly clear: it's fine, for you.

 

As far interpreting matters goes, it all depends on the vaguery of the laws, and the legally-binding documents, of which a license agreement definitely is.  If a license says "you cannot use this to do X," then you cannot do X.  I don't care if that makes you react badly or not, that's pretty black and white, and doesn't take someone with a law degree.

 

What you then discuss, at length, is not about legality.  What you're discussing is what you could possibly get away with.  I'll go back to my speed limit example: the speed limit is 70 on a local highway. Everyone usually goes about 75, if not a hair under 80.  Policy officers usually don't go after you until you do about 10 over the limit where I live.  Could they go after me for going 76?  Absolutely.  The limit is 75.

 

Regardless of whether or not someone will chase you down, the vast majority of people I've seen are outside of the valid uses.  They might not get caught, but that doesn't make it okay.  I could certainly go get wasted drunk at a bar and drive my car home on back roads that I've never seen a cop on and probably not get caught...but again, that doesn't make it okay, or acceptable.

 

My argument isn't that people are going to get caught.  My argument is that, for most people, it is wrong.

 

Again, simple test:

Did you have/use ESP before you knew P3D existed?

Yes - probably a valid user.

No - probably not.

 

 

 

Eh...not to get into too much of a chicken-egg scenario here, but I'd argue that rigid VA policies are more of the cause of incorrect information spread more than anything else.  That goes for the landing light thing, the 250/10 thing, and the idea that there's a "right" way to do just about everything.  Sure, the community asks for some sort of points-based-system, or at least hours accrual, but again, that's just because they expect it based on what has been provided in the past.

 

The fact that you don't see many people who don't agree with the policy isn't quite statistically significant.  That's like asking college kids if they think college is important.  Of course they do - they're there.  Same goes for your pilot group.  People who don't agree with the VA policy of points systems usually self-filter (like myself) and avoid the VA (or VAs in general), so it's no surprise you don't have much feedback about it.

I respect your position in that you are taking the ethical approach. For some the supposed right choice is what they can get away with. Others are anchored in what is objectively right. vs wrong. I typically take the latter but to be honest the whole flight sim hobby is confusing as hell :-)

[Vodcoke 14]

Review of the 777 and an interview with Mr R on sim flight. This is a snippet from it

 

LD: Is there anything you are willing to tell us about products in the PMDG pipeline? Anything we should be looking out for, surprises we can expect?

 

RSR: We are notoriously tight-lipped about our development work because we sometimes need the flexibility to shift development priorities around in order to keep our core product development moving forward smoothly. I can tell you that we are within weeks of going into beta testing with our first P3D release and that we are a few months away from beta testing our first X-plane release. The X-plane release will be a surprise because it is the first time we will have developed a product from the ground up with the intent to release it in more than one simulation platform- X-plane and FSX in this case.

 

Joe park

[Tomcat_F-14D 2]

Well, interesting.

He's referring to a product that doesn't exist even for FSX, so I wonder which plane it could be, but no words about the 2nd X-Plane project.

 

Angelo

[737freak 42]

It has to be the DC-6, especially after all the silence regarding this little bird. Also, it makes sense to try this new development method on a non-mainstream product for a smaller market to try everything out...