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Cruachan

Stutter - Adaptive VSync could offer a solution

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Hi everyone,

 

Following a recent driver update to 337.88 the stutters returned (they were present before, but now seemed much worse) and nothing I did seemed to alleviate the problem other than moving sliders to the left of their previous settings which I don't want to do!

 

I have spent the past couple of days researching the subject (.....again!) and discovered this very interesting and informative article which I felt many of you might like to read:

 

http://m.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/16/nvidia_adaptive_vsync_technology_review/#.U44jedq9KSN

 

As a result I have now enabled Adaptive VSync in the NVIDIA Control Panel under Global Settings and the results are unexpected and quite extraordinary! Not only am I seeing higher average frame rates generally, but the stuttering is now virtually non-existent :) Also, I can now activate HDR Lighting without noticeable impact on performance and the sim's visuals appear quite stunning!

 

There seems to be no reason not to enable Adaptive VSync under Global Settings as I would certainly want this great feature in all my Gaming Apps. Also, I have Prepar3D v1.4 installed as well as v2.2 and the NVIDIA Control Panel only lists one Prepar3D.exe.

 

I strongly encourage you to try it. You might be pleasantly surprised. No need to enable VSync or Triple Buffering in the sim - don't think it matters anyway as the NVidia Control Panel settings will override.

 

For reference, here are my other In-Sim settings which, for owners of more powerful GPUs than mine (GeForce GTX 580M x2 in SLI):

 

Prepar3D v2.2.10438.0 (Settings):

FXAA - OFF
MSAA - 4 samples
Anisotropic - 4x (try it, you may be pleasantly surprised - I know I was)
Texture Resolution - 2048x2048
VSync - OFF (ADAPTIVE set under Global Settings in NVIDIA Control Panel)
Triple Buffering - unchecked
Target frame rate - Unlimited

Level of detail radius - High
Tesselation Factor - High
Mesh resolution - 10m
Texture resolution - 15cm

Scenery complexity - Dense
Autogen vegetation density - Normal
Autogen building density - Dense
Water Detail - High
Reflections - User Vehicle
Special effects detail and distance - High

Landing lights, Lens flare and HDR Lighting - checked
Shadow Map Count - Medium
Enable Terrain to Receive Shadows - checked

Terrain and Shadow Cast Distance - 0m
Cloud Shadow Cast Distance - 0m (worth trying at 10,000m but does impact on frame rates)
Object Shadow Cast Distance - 6,000m
Internal, External vehicles - Cast and Receive

Cloud draw distance - 80 miles
Volumetric Fog - checked
Detailed clouds
Cloud coverage density - Medium

Airline traffic - 20%
General Aviation - 20%
Airport vehicle - low
Road vehicles - 15%
Ships and ferries - 50%
Leisure boats - 20%

 

Also, don't forget to configure your SOUND Settings under Windows Sound Devices (easily overlooked)

 

As I mentioned, I have 2xGTX 580Ms configured in SLI. I know this is not the recommended way to go at present, but I have other Apps which DO use SLI and I don't want to be continually enabling and disabling SLI as each time it involves a system reboot. I sincerely hope that NVIDIA won't be letting us down when it comes to creating an SLI driver profile for Prepar3D as I would dearly like to see both GPUs gainfully employed in P3D v2. At present I'm seeing the load on one is between 90-97% while the other is idling around 7-9%. What a waste of resources!

 

Hope some of you who are still battling with the stutters find this experience helpful.

 

MIke

 

Edit (1): One interesting observation - this seems to work even although my frame rates are rarely >60 and on those rare occasions when they do peak over 60 it is very brief. Mostly my frame rates are showing rapid fluctuations between 25 and 59fps. However, despite this, Adaptive VSync still has a positive effect in significantly reducing the stutters to the point of appearing to be virtually non-existent. Surprising, yes, but certainly very welcome.

 

Edit (2): It might be good practice, as I did, to delete Prepar3D.CFG and the Shaders folder and allow the sim to rebuild/recompile at the next run. In other words, give the sim a fresh start :)

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Interesting post.  I will give this a try but have a few questions.

 

1) Can this be done using Nvidia Inspector ?

 

2) Have you tried with FSX under Steve's DX10 ?

 

3) Please explain what you mean by configuring sound in Windows ?  This is a new one to me.

 

 

thanks,

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" NVIDIA Control Panel only lists one Prepar3D.exe."

 

Wouldn't this nullify Our NI settings ?

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Interesting post. I will give this a try but have a few questions.

 

1) Can this be done using Nvidia Inspector ?

 

2) Have you tried with FSX under Steve's DX10 ?

 

3) Please explain what you mean by configuring sound in Windows ? This is a new one to me.

 

 

thanks,

Hi Mark,

 

1. I don't use NVIDIA Inspector. Never felt I needed to and many others have questioned it's value where Prepar3D v2.2 is concerned.

2. No, I don't have FSX installed on my Alienware M18x.

3. In P3D select Options > Sound and you will find 'Windows Sound Devices'. Better to select your own appropriate sound device hardware from the drop down menus rather than going with the default settings which are somewhat generic and presumably are implemented in software.

 

Mike

 

 

" NVIDIA Control Panel only lists one Prepar3D.exe."

 

Wouldn't this nullify Our NI settings ?

Hi Richard,

 

I would respond by asking whether NI actually has much value where P3D is concerned? I know some have had variable success, but I have the impression that until NVIDIA help us out it's difficult if not impossible

to force many settings. I don't use NVIDIA Inspector and have found that my In-Sim settings achieve great image quality on my laptop's 18.4" 1920x1080x32 monitor screen.

 

Mike

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Thanks Mike - figured that I have it all taken care of in NI - thanks for the post

 

Have to check on the sound options  :)

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Hi there,

 

Great find! am going to try this now..

 

Just a quick one... what do you mean by

 

Also, don't forget to configure your SOUND Settings under Windows Sound Devices (easily overlooked)?

 

Where do i find this, looking for??

 

Cheers

 

Doug

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"Also, don't forget to configure your SOUND Settings under Windows Sound Devices (easily overlooked)?"

 

In P3D menu in game if you have an addon sound card chosse its name in the menu instead of a default description

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I agree.  I followed the above advice and I did see improved performance with better graphics.

Thank you,

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FSX has the same thing with sound, mine was on "default" and I changed it to my Realtek sound card.

 

NI does have Adaptive VSync - Only issue is that I have it set to "Standard" and "1/2 Refresh Rate" so not sure if I move it to "adaptive" whether or not that means I need to then change it from 1/2 Refresh Rate to some other setting.

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Mark NI has vertical sync tear control line has adaptive - not the vertical sync line I have that on use 3d application -  I am going to try the adaptive switch now and see what it does report back in a few mins


"vertical sync tear control line has adaptive - not the vertical sync line I have that on use 3d application"

 

Yup a keeper for me - noticed a slight problem with the propeller not spinning full animation when switching to spot view - this slight problem is now gone - I have also left on v-sync and triple buffering on in p3d menu seems better - great stuff Mike - thank you

 

Mark I see your not using P3D so not sure in your case - make the switch its awesome

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Nice finding but I doubt that there's any difference in doing settings with control panel or nVidia Inspector, but the NI offers more options then the CP.

Spirit

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FSX has the same thing with sound, mine was on "default" and I changed it to my Realtek sound card.

 

NI does have Adaptive VSync - Only issue is that I have it set to "Standard" and "1/2 Refresh Rate" so not sure if I move it to "adaptive" whether or not that means I need to then change it from 1/2 Refresh Rate to some other setting.

 

Hi Mark,

 

No, don't select the 1/2 refresh rate option as you don't want to throttle your frame rates. The article in my original post explains why. Adaptive VSync works differently. As to why I'm still seeing great results when my frame rates are <60, which they are 99.9999% of the time, I really don't know. My understanding is that Adaptive VSync should switch off when frame rates drop below your monitor's native refresh rate, yet somehow it still seems to be influencing performance for the better, at least that's my experience and I'm certainly not complaining!

 

If what I'm seeing is anything to go by I'm tempted to say we don't really need to use Nvidia Inspector anymore. I stopped using it a while back, although, to be fair, this was because I have both versions of P3D installed (v1.4 which I use with photoscenery and v2.2 with the various ORBX and PILOTS addons). Unfortunately both versions have the same name for the executable, Prepar3D.exe, but only one shows in the profile list of NI. This leads to confusion, at least it does for me, as to which installation I'm affecting when changes are made. The Graphic Settings available in P3D seem perfectly adequate. Also, I've found it unnecessary to enable triple buffering while Adaptive VSync is active. The VSync option in P3D is the standard VSync which has been around for years. Adaptive VSync is a relatively new development by NVIDIA and was first implemented in the 300 series of drivers. At first, I had the impression that you needed at least a 600 series GPU to take advantage of Adaptive VSync but, quite clearly, my experience confirms, as stated in the article, that this is not the case.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Thanks Mike, I will change that setting and see how it goes.

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I noticed one thing using that Adaptive Vsync that, to me, is important. I run a 3770 at 4.7K and 2 gtx780's in SLI and I monitor the GPU usage. Using Adaptive

 

with unlimited fps I got consistent 60 - 75fps and the GPU usage was 70% each with the GPU clock at 1225

 

with 30fps set - I got 30fps - GPU usage dropped to 55% each - GPU clock 993

 

with 20fps - got 20fps - GPU usage about 35% - GPU clock 993

 

Since I see no difference between 20fps and 70fps it seems to me that the lowest FPS you can visually use will allow your GPU the most room.

 

I suggest that anyone setting up to get 60 - 70 fps is just wasting GPU power with no real benefit other than bragging rights.

 

Vic

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I noticed one thing using that Adaptive Vsync that, to me, is important. I run a 3770 at 4.7K and 2 gtx780's in SLI and I monitor the GPU usage. Using Adaptive

 

with unlimited fps I got consistent 60 - 75fps and the GPU usage was 70% each with the GPU clock at 1225

 

with 30fps set - I got 30fps - GPU usage dropped to 55% each - GPU clock 993

 

with 20fps - got 20fps - GPU usage about 35% - GPU clock 993

 

Since I see no difference between 20fps and 70fps it seems to me that the lowest FPS you can visually use will allow your GPU the most room.

 

I suggest that anyone setting up to get 60 - 70 fps is just wasting GPU power with no real benefit other than bragging rights.

 

Vic

 

Hi Vic,

 

I understand where you are coming from, but I suggest, with respect, that you may be missing the point. For many of us it would appear that employing the Adaptive VSync switch is producing better performance as in smoother and less stuttery on screen image updating. The boost in frame rate is an unexpected, but welcome, bonus. This is likely to be a good thing for those of us who are not running with a mighty 780 and frame rates of 60 and above are but a dream. Also, if you refer again to the article, the intention behind the use of Adaptive VSync is to cap frame rates when they exceed the native refresh rate of your monitor. So, if your GPU is routinely achieving >60fps and your monitor is refreshing at 60Hz then Adaptive VSync will cap the frame rate at 60fps to prevent tearing.

 

I cannot explain why some folk, like me, who rarely see frame rates >60 are still seeing some benefit from using this switch. Nevertheless, it is occurring and I, for one, am very thankful for that :)

 

Regards,

Mike

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Mike posted at LM but lets keep it here:

 

Yes the AXE is not officially P3D ready but other that hard on fps seems to be working fine

 

Hi Mike:
 
 
Have to take off till tomorrow night so will not be around till then - my system is:
 
Gigabyte z77x-up7 OC to 4.2 ghz - 16 gig Corsair 2133 platinums - Corsair h100 extreme water cooler - Titan GPU - NZXT Phantom 820 case - Monitor PB278Q 2560 x 1440 - 60 mhz refresh
 
I have turned down a lot of the settings in post for use with Aerosoft extended airbus but mainly wanted you to see the NI settings
 
Thanks, Rich

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I cannot explain why some folk, like me, who rarely see frame rates >60 are still seeing some benefit from using this switch. Nevertheless, it is occurring and I, for one, am very thankful for that :)

Oh I quite agree Mike! From some of the reports I've read it is a big plus for a lot of people. My system, luckily, is very stable and I "occasionally" get a unexpected micro stutter but generally I just go for a smooth flight. I didn't expect to see much change so my comment was to point out that setting the FPS to the lowest practical value for each system might be beneficial too.

 

Vic

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Mike post your nvidia control panel settings - a screenshot would be helpful - thanks

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Mike post your nvidia control panel settings - a screenshot would be helpful - thanks

 

Hi Rich,

 

Settings in Nvidia Control Panel? Hmm, that's easy: Vertical Sync = Adaptive VSync under Global Settings. Otherwise nothing has been changed from the provided NVIDIA defaults :)

 

NvidiaControlPanel.jpg

 

Screen Shots? How about a clutch of 10:

 

Prepar3D_Image4.jpg

 

Prepar3D_LangleyAFB.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_8.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_4.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_3.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_5.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_7.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_6.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_2.jpg

 

F22-Raptor_1.jpg

 

Rather annoyingly the jpeg compression has compromised my wonderful sharp images :(  Any suggestions?

 

Regards,

Mike

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The adaptive vSync works well on my rig. Just a little improvement from an already very good and smooth P3D v2. It looks like that there is some load moved from the CPU to the GPU.

Good finding

Spirit

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The adaptive vSync works well on my rig. Just a little improvement from an already very good and smooth P3D v2. It looks like that there is some load moved from the CPU to the GPU.

Good finding

Spirit

+1

 

I have found that my pc runs super smooth with this enabled. I only have an Intel i3 processor, and my GPU's seem to do the hard work these days.

 

Tom

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Regarding post #19 and my comment about JPEG compression, in fact these images look much better when viewed and enlarged in Photobucket. Phew! That's a relief. It's ages since I've attempted image uploads here. Just tap/click on each image and it will open in Photobucket, then enlarge by selecting the + icons.

 

Hope you like them. They do illustrate what can be achieved with relatively modest settings in the Graphics page of P3D v2 without the use of NI - see my original post in this thread.

 

The degree of realism, as portrayed in P3D v2, continues to amaze me. Without question, Lockheed Martin have really got it nailed! Mind you, a large chunk of the credit must be attributed to ORBX and PILOT'S as their beautiful textures and terrain elevation mesh have also worked their magic :)

 

Mike

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Have been having issues with stuttering and bad performance in ORBX regions.  Ditched NI and tried the OP's settings with adaptive vsync enabled in the control panel.  I must say after a couple test flights I do see a great improvement.  Went from a stuttering mess of 20-30 FPS to 60-70 FPS.  Still unsure where frame rate should be capped for best results.  I also ditched SGSS and went from 8msaa to 4msaa so I am sure that helped my frames.  But visually I am seeing very little difference.  Very good find and worth trying.  Still trying to understand how this helps but it does.

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Have been having issues with stuttering and bad performance in ORBX regions. Ditched NI and tried the OP's settings with adaptive vsync enabled in the control panel. I must say after a couple test flights I do see a great improvement. Went from a stuttering mess of 20-30 FPS to 60-70 FPS. Still unsure where frame rate should be capped for best results. I also ditched SGSS and went from 8msaa to 4msaa so I am sure that helped my frames. But visually I am seeing very little difference. Very good find and worth trying. Still trying to understand how this helps but it does.

Hi Matt,

 

'Silentsage' posted in the Lockheed Martin Prepar3D Forum what is, to my mind, a very clear explanation that unravels some of the mystery behind what many of us are seeing being displayed by the sim's frame rate counter. I'm sure he won't mind if I reprise it here:

 

"The numbers I'm reporting are the ones shown in the upper left corner of the display when you hit shift-Z.

 

I don't think the numbers shown on the screen are the actual FPS of the display. I suspect they are the frame rendering rate of the simulation within the CPU and graphics card. I've seen numbers well above 60 "FPS" ever since FSX was first released. My interpretation has always been that (for example) a 100 FPS number means that the CPU and GPU are rendering frames in 10 msec (1/100). I think that is why, once the "FPS" goes above 60, you see very little difference in visual smoothness - you're rendering frames faster than they can be displayed (unless you have a 120 Hz display).

 

Another way to look at it is that, if the reported FPS is above 60, you're rendering frames faster than they can be displayed, which means you can adjust your settings to higher values (more complexity) until it drops back to 60.

 

I think this makes sense because, regardless of the rendering rate, your monitor will display 60 FPS. Those 60 frames on the display are shared by how ever many rendered images the CPU/GPU provide. You get micro stutters when the rendering rate is less than 60 rendered frames per second (or 30, or 120 depending on your settings and display hardware)."

 

Adaptive VSync caps displayed frame rates at your monitor's refresh rate. Yet even after applying the Adaptive VSync switch quite a few are routinely seeing frame rates in excess of 60 (assuming the majority have monitors refreshing at 60Hz). Why? I do believe 'silentsage' has provided us with the answer. To me, he makes excellent sense while preserving our understanding of what is happening with Adaptive Sync.

 

Regards,

Mike

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I still have stutter below 24 fps but otherwise its nice. The most smooth experience in FSX for me is still N.I@58FPS windowmode which also works in combo with adaptive VSync. Havent try it yet though in P3DV2.

But it cut FPS in half when undocking panels so i only use it in GA.

 

Michael

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