Oh the suspicions...The purpose of the closed support forum is not to hide anything. Its purpose is to keep the buying customers happy, because with only their messages & questions in support forum (and other messsages in the general discussions, where the same people also post and answer questions from those who haven't yet bought it) the forum stays clean of anything else, and we can all concentrate on solving their problems, instead of filtering out the endless queries etc. from non-customers. The general discussions side is more than enough to fulfill that side of the need. It's not like we keep "secrets" in the support forum, that cannot "leak" to the public side. I wish people would sometimes think about these things a bit further, to understand that what's being done is done for the better of the buying customer, and not the other way around.Tero

Well mr Hawkman, I think it's safe to say that in this case your personal "issues" with one of the developer is affecting your judgement big time. Let me point out to you a few facts of life as it is now with LDS767 and Level D:- PIC forum went to moderated because of the absolute GARBAGE that was flooding on to the forums. With garbage I mean endless messages of personal frustration from people who couldn't grasp that the product needs to be FINISHED FIRST before it CAN BE RELEASED. Do you really think that ANY sane person or a group of persons will want to look at that kind of thing going on at their OWN, well-established forum ? Think again. Your comment about "blatant censorship" just goes to show how little you know about these things again. ALL messages that weren't way out of line were being let through. If you take the time to browse through the PIC forum, you will find that there are a LOT of messages that are very critical towards LDS767 and the group. If we would've kept it strict, do you think we would've let those through ?- You talk about developer's inability to accept criticism. Come again. We have changed the contents of the sim many times to suit needs brought to us by customers in the PIC forum. Constructive criticism is ONE thing, and the endless rants that you put on the PIC forum are another thing. I'm sorry but like I said, your personal (misplaced) feelings that relate to a team member have NOTHING to do with Level-D Simulations and the product that the team has put out. As an EX pilot one would expect a little more mature attitude from you but as we've all already seen you've chosen another approach.- You talk about us not respecting our customers and their hobby ! You can ask anyone what they think about the support over at the product forum. The entire team and beta team is spread all around the world, and because of that there will always be someone during almost every moment of the day to read and answer all kinds of questions, and this has been going on from the beginning, and we have no intentions to change it.I made this post to point out to people that whatever YOUR personal feelings might be, there is another side to the story.One other point is that the LDS767 is a one helluva simulator in itself, and I personally have been waiting to see it released for a long time. It's (in my personal opinion) superior to anything in the market right now, and I'm sure the customers now know it too.Tero

Tero,With all due respect, I don't buy that for one second and I hope that you really don't either. If the problem was with postings, then why not close the forum to new postings or non-customer postings only. . .and let everyone else be able to at least read the forum?You know Tero, I've seen the censorship on the PIC forum first hand. And if I'm not mistaken you have seen this also. I've seen the bite from the almost cult like devoted following from PIC. And, I've seen some other "behind the scenes," stuff that I will not go into here.Needless to say, this is one title that, as a consumer, I am not recommending to anyone. There are just simply too many good titles out there from developers that appreciate and show respect to their customers.Gary Hawk

Mr Hawkman.How can I not "buy" it ? I wrote it, because that's the TRUTH. No matter how you or anyone else tries to twist it. Live with it, that's the last I will say about it. EDIT: I'll add this. I really hate it that you're trying to cast kind of a "low-grade / low-quality" cape on our back because of your personal issues. If it's up to me, I'll not let that happen without setting things straight. Tero

The general forum is open to all.... If you have questions or concerns before you buy, just post it in the General forum (no need to buy), other users will tell you the answers. Thinking that LDS is hiding something is not true... post in the general forum as you will see.

Tero,Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, IMHO I think some of your "facts of life," as you put it are being tainted by your close proximity to this project.First off, I don't personally know you and you don't know what my personal feelings are regarding anything.Second, what are you talking about when you say "EX pilot?" Again, you don't know me. . .so what are you talking about?Third, I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize the censorship that has taken place on that forum. Oh that's right, you said it was only messages that were "way out of line." Guess my last not-so-mature "rant," to you that openly complemented your contributiuons to our hobby was. . ."way out of line,". . .enough to be censored?You know Tero, for the record, I will state here my appreciation for all you have done for our hobby. Unfortunately, not everyone else falls into your same category. That is why, as a consumer, I chose not to patronize Level D products. Right now, my quid is better spent elsewhere.Gary Hawk

Well at least you two are making this forum thread entertaining to read...kind of like listening to a married couple :-xxrotflmao

I just want to tell you guys at Level-D, don't take my comments above the wrong way. This is an awesome product but unfortunately some of us are having trouble with it. I'm a big fan of Eric Ernst's work and wish him and everyone else well with this latest product. Once you guys get the issues sorted out I hope you have a winner in the sales department with this add-on. I can tell allot of hard work went into this sim and I hope as many people see that as possible and show their support because you guys deserve it...

Tero,Thank you again for the reply. I'm not really sure what personal "issues," you are refering to. So, may I suggest taking that issue to e-mail. . .if that's what you're interesting in doing?However, I will say that it is a joy that we can have discussions such as this here in this forum. Definate "BRAVO!" to the moderator for recognizing legitimate dialouge and discussion.Tero, with all due respect, IMHO you are a person who has contributed in a very positive manner to our hobby. And as such, I usually respect your opinion. . .just not in this particular instance. And, not with this particular project that you seem to be personally involved with in such a close manner.Yes, I do have my "personal," reasons for not patronizing Level D products. . .and I do have many reasons for this. . .just as any other consumer does who choses not to patronize a particular brand or product. Nothing too unusual there, right?Regardless Tero, I have chosen not to patronize this brand or product. I hope that you can respect my decision as a consumer as I respect your decisions to buy, patronize, or not patronize whatever brands, or products that you so chose.Gary Hawk

Well I bought the 767 on saturday and I muct say that I am really pleased with it. I run on a moderately fast computer (PIV 2.4ghz, 1G RAM, Nvidia FX5200) and I'm getting excellent performances, slightly better FPS than PMDG's excellent 737.The LDS team have put together a real winner there. The model is great, the VC is georgeous and the systems (incl. FMS) are probably some of the most detailed you could ever get your hands on. This baby also feel like it's a heavy!In other words, just get it! ;)No I do not work for LDS, I'm just a happy customer.

Cameron,I have to say that was definately NOT the image I was thinking about when I was writing those posts! Maybe I should rethink posting to Tero. . .hmmmm!? :)Gary Hawk

Sure, I respect your decision and you certainly have the freedom of speech to tell what you think about things.I just want to give people reading these a different point of view, one that I personally think is a more valid one. That's all.Tero

Tero,Thank you for respecting my decision NOT to purchase any Level D products. Yes, I had many reasons before, but this latest closing of the support forum from folks who just want to find out what's wrong with it before buying has just cemented my decision not to buy this product. Couple this with my many other reasons, the $40 price tag for something that may or may not work, the other great products out there such as Lonny Payne's great freeware 76/75 panel that includes an FMC, and I'm comfortable with my "point of view."Gary Hawk

>With all due respect, I don't buy that for one second and I>hope that you really don't either. And with all due respect I don't buy your point of view either. I read this rather uninspiring exchange between two of you and have to say Gary that I do see legitimate reasons to open an additional support forum only for those who paid for the product. Your posts Gary convinced me of only one thing - that you have strong preference for two words: 'patronize' and 'censorship'. Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

I was the one, who made the first post here last friday, that Level D is short before release.And I was probably one of the first, who registered at the new LDS forum.And I was actually planning to download the plane as soon as it was released.I was very exited that Time.But now I'm dissappointed, because "not owners" are not allowed to access the support forum, not even for reading only. It is allways the support forum, where you get the most important infos, what flaws and shortcomings a product has. To hide these important infos from possible customers is fishy IMO.This locking of the support forum is the reason, that I have not bought LDS yet - and I think I'm not the only one.Wolfgang