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FSX-Fan2013

Few questions about the weather radar

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Hello,

I have some questions about the weather radar. So, for now it will only work with ASN. I have OPUS and I don't know if I should buy ASN to get the weather radar. Will the radar also work with other programs like OPUS in the future or will it stay like this that it's just with ASN prossible? And are there any plans to integrate the weather radar in the 737NGX or any other older products?

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I would say they will work in the future,

 

However, my opinion is that ASN is by a country mile (possible english term = a lot) is the superior product. Not only in accuracy but in depiction and why would you want to be with anyone else? HIFI were the ones who made the weather radar happen, no one else has.

 

Alex

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I'm not so optimistic. There isn't any indication that the PMDG WXR will work with other weather engines in future. It needs ASN's additional rain information. Still one should never say never. It might happen. Other weather engines might be updated to work in a similar way to ASN and therefore work with PMDG's radar.

 

Interestingly, at Aerosoft the situation is the exact opposite. They have developed a way to find rain in FSX. Their new realistic WXR will work with any weather engine except ASN.

 

As for retrofits I think it's quite likely to be integrated with the NGX in future. Possibly also the J41 as it is included retrospectively in the Operations Center so may. But I don't expect to see any updates on the MD11.

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From what I can see, I don't see any barriers to other developers to implement some type of weather radar feature.  Their hurdle isn't getting the data into PMDG products; their hurdle is getting their weather radar to co-incide with precip.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but sure, Aerosoft found precip data in the sim itself, but isn't it so incredibly basic that it's just giant grid squares?  I'd consider that a pretty dead end there.  Finding the precip data was promising, but if it's on such a macro scale, it's difficult - if not impossible - to break macro down into micro.  I'm honestly not sure where they can go from there, unless people are okay with large grid squares of rain on their radar.

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I would say they will work in the future,

 

However, my opinion is that ASN is by a country mile (possible english term = a lot) is the superior product. Not only in accuracy but in depiction and why would you want to be with anyone else? HIFI were the ones who made the weather radar happen, no one else has.

 

Alex

 

I have to disagree with you on that. In my eyes FSGRW is the superior product when in comes to stable performance and accurate weather, turbulence and fog depiction. I'm not going to get into detail here, just check it out on the internet...

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From what I can see, I don't see any barriers to other developers to implement some type of weather radar feature. Their hurdle isn't getting the data into PMDG products; their hurdle is getting their weather radar to co-incide with precip.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but sure, Aerosoft found precip data in the sim itself, but isn't it so incredibly basic that it's just giant grid squares? I'd consider that a pretty dead end there. Finding the precip data was promising, but if it's on such a macro scale, it's difficult - if not impossible - to break macro down into micro. I'm honestly not sure where they can go from there, unless people are okay with large grid squares of rain on their radar.

I don't know what Aerosoft have done but if it was just about the grid it would be very obvious in the screenshots. I don't think it should be dismissed yet simply because of the different methodology or NIH.

 

As I understand it ASN doesn't have any better info about where rain really is. It positions clouds according to the weather it generates. I assume it decides which clouds have rain, where and how much. The interface to the PMDG WXR would have to be published before another weather engine producer could do the same.

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And correct me if I'm wrong, but sure, Aerosoft found precip data in the sim itself, but isn't it so incredibly basic that it's just giant grid squares?  I'd consider that a pretty dead end there.  Finding the precip data was promising, but if it's on such a macro scale, it's difficult - if not impossible - to break macro down into micro.  I'm honestly not sure where they can go from there, unless people are okay with large grid squares of rain on their radar.

 

From what I understand over from the Aerosoft forums, the giant squares are just conceptual at the moment. It was to "prove" the data was there. They're working on the cosmetics of it at the moment and will be more realistic in the future.

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I don't know what Aerosoft have done but if it was just about the grid it would be very obvious in the screenshots. I don't think it should be dismissed yet simply because of the different methodology or NIH.

 

Looks pretty obvious to me:

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/78605-weather-radar-work-in-progress/#entry560956

 

I honestly couldn't care less what their methodology is.  It's the fact that the display has blocks on it that bothers me.  Rain cells don't look like that.  I think it's great that they were able to (seemingly) prove that you can pull precip data out of the sim, but it doesn't achieve the intended effect (at least given the information that's currently out there), so it really doesn't do much good (again, at the level we know it to be developed).  Will they be able to take that any further?  Who knows... 

 

If so, then great.

If not, I'm not surprised.

 

 

From what I understand over from the Aerosoft forums, the giant squares are just conceptual at the moment. It was to "prove" the data was there. They're working on the cosmetics of it at the moment and will be more realistic in the future.

 

The way I read it, it didn't seem that they understood exactly what they'd need to do to get it to look better.  I agree that it looks like they released the info to prove the data is there, but I'm not convinced they know what to do from there.

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Well... you could argue that if the rain in the real world would work like the rain in FSX, you'd see squares in a real airplane too. 

Aerosoft's weather radar sounds like a CPU killer, though.

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The way I read it, it didn't seem that they understood exactly what they'd need to do to get it to look better.  I agree that it looks like they released the info to prove the data is there, but I'm not convinced they know what to do from there.

 

The way I see it is they've managed to do what most thought impossible, pull the precip data out of the sim, (that's the hard part right there) so I wouldn't bet against them being able to clean it up and improve it's performance.

 

Will it be as feature rich and as accurate as PMDG's? I doubt that very much.

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I have to disagree with you on that. In my eyes FSGRW is the superior product when in comes to stable performance and accurate weather, turbulence and fog depiction. I'm not going to get into detail here, just check it out on the internet...

 

And I have to disagree with you on that  :P . In my eyes, OPUS is the most superior product. Stephen's innovative approach was it, which lay the foundation of current weather programs and I think he will still be one step ahead of them all  B) . 

 

Just hope, he soon focuses on finding a way of making the triple seven's weather radar and his program work together.

 

Dominik

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Looks pretty obvious to me:

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/78605-weather-radar-work-in-progress/#entry560956

 

I honestly couldn't care less what their methodology is. It's the fact that the display has blocks on it that bothers me. Rain cells don't look like that. I think it's great that they were able to (seemingly) prove that you can pull precip data out of the sim, but it doesn't achieve the intended effect (at least given the information that's currently out there), so it really doesn't do much good (again, at the level we know it to be developed). Will they be able to take that any further? Who knows...

 

If so, then great.

If not, I'm not surprised.

 

You picked what is clearly a work in progress shot. More recent images are more realistic. It's been announced for their forthcoming Airbus update so there's no doubt about whether it's going any further. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

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I have to disagree with you on that. In my eyes FSGRW is the superior product when in comes to stable performance and accurate weather, turbulence and fog depiction. I'm not going to get into detail here, just check it out on the internet...

And I have to disagree with you on that . In my eyes, OPUS is the most superior product. Stephen's innovative approach was it, which lay the foundation of current weather programs and I think he will still be one step ahead of them all .

However, my opinion is that ASN is by a country mile (possible english term = a lot) is the superior product. Not only in accuracy but in depiction and why would you want to be with anyone else? HIFI were the ones who made the weather radar happen, no one else has.

 

Have to disagree with you all on this one, we all know  that fsx default weather is far better  and gives better depiction of  weather :rolleyes:

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The way I see it is they've managed to do what most thought impossible, pull the precip data out of the sim, (that's the hard part right there) so I wouldn't bet against them being able to clean it up and improve it's performance.

 

I could always try and break a world record by trying to fold paper more than seven times.  If I did it, it would sure be worth about nothing unless there was a practical use for it.  Doing something "impossible" is one thing.  Doing something useful with it is quite another.  I haven't seen any new pictures since the ones in the thread I posted.  If it's still so basic that you can clearly see grid squares, then I question the practical use of that data.

 

 

 


Will it be as feature rich and as accurate as PMDG's? I doubt that very much.

 

It's not PMDG's - it's HiFi's...

 

You picked what is clearly a work in progress shot. More recent images are more realistic. It's been announced for their forthcoming Airbus update so there's no doubt about whether it's going any further. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

 

That's the only one I knew of.  I saw it, wasn't impressed, and moved on.  If you have more recent, I'd love to see it.

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It's not PMDG's - it's HiFi's...

 

"The other is a very advanced weather radar implementation that was created in partnership with HiFi Technologies and we think represents one of the best radar simulations yet created in the FS market." - RSR

 

Stop splitting hairs  :P

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Stop splitting hairs 

 

I wasn't.  HiFi did all of the base work.  PMDG implemented features from it (and Alex helped with a lot of work, too, but still...).  You don't need to look very far to see where they emphasize the work that HiFi did, and how, in most cases, they defer to HiFi for any feature that is, or isn't currently implemented.  The is obvious in how much the HiFi guys have been answering questions about the product/implementation:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/441015-weather-radar-video-previews-by-kyle-rodgers-and-frooglepete/page-4#entry3012219

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It's not PMDG's - it's HiFi's...

 

 

 


I wasn't.  HiFi did all of the base work.  PMDG implemented features from it

 

Is it PMDG's weather radar or is it HiFi's? Or both? I think RSR's quote is quite clear.

 

Ok, maybe it was less a case of hair splitting and more a case of being inaccurate and misleading, because as you admit, PMDG have a certain amount of input in the weather radar, however much that may be. So to say 'it's not PMDG's it's HiFi's' is inaccurate at best.

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Is it PMDG's weather radar or is it HiFi's? Or both? I think RSR's quote is quite clear.
 
Ok, maybe it was less a case of hair splitting and more a case of being inaccurate and misleading, because as you admit, PMDG have a certain amount of input in the weather radar, however much that may be. So to say 'it's not PMDG's it's HiFi's' is inaccurate at best.

 

From my understanding, most of the work was HiFi (the actual weather data finding, gathering, etc), and the integration (to include default setting) was PMDG.  You'll note - again - that any time functionality is discussed, they usually defer to HiFi to answer it.  When ground clutter was brought up - again - HiFi provided more detail.  Ryan has also noted on several occasions that further development is pretty much up to HiFi.

 

So, sure, the way I put it was potentially misleading, but it was more accurate than calling the radar PMDG's, that's for sure.

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So, sure, the way I put it was potentially misleading, but it was more accurate than calling the radar PMDG's, that's for sure.

 

More accurate, less accurate, you were still inaccurate, so was I.

 

However, in my original post in this thread I was merely pointing out that in my opinion the weather radar implemented in PMDG's 777 will be more feature rich and accurate than what we may (or may not) see in the other vendor's work. I wasn't trying to point out who'd done the most work on it and therefore who should claim it as their own.

 

Whereas you were pointing out who'd done the most work on the radar and who therefore it belongs to, but you did so inaccurately.  ^_^

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From my understanding, most of the work was HiFi (the actual weather data finding, gathering, etc),

It has to be because the same solution is being used by iFly and, apparently, FSL. The PMDG part is simulating the WXR in the aircraft.

 

I don't think there's any more data gathering going on. Unless you know of a way to identify cloud bearing clouds from published weather data. There's a lot of weather modelling going on, but whether it's "real world" precipitation or not is a moot point. It's integrated with the weather ASN presents and that's really all that counts.

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It has to be because the same solution is being used by iFly and, apparently, FSL. The PMDG part is simulating the WXR in the aircraft.

 

I don't think there's any more data gathering going on. Unless you know of a way to identify cloud bearing clouds from published weather data. There's a lot of weather modelling going on, but whether it's "real world" precipitation or not is a moot point. It's integrated with the weather ASN presents and that's really all that counts.

 

Not sure how my opinion/stance has come across, but if it's anything other than what I'm about to describe, I'll take the fall for that...

 

I wasn't intending to put across the view that the weather radar would match up real world rain cells precisely.  If anything, I've been a big opponent of that, mainly because NexRad radar is a composite of multiple elevation scans of the weather.  In doing so, they lose the altitude dimension and the depiction becomes flat (at least on the publicly available data that I know of).  In doing so, it kinda ruins the concept of aviation weather radar, which is being able to tactically decide how the weather will affect you at various altitudes.

 

I'm 100% in agreement with you that the only thing that truly matters is the radar matches the weather that ASN presents.  That's all I ask.  By "data gathering" I meant that ASN gathers real world data, assembles it, models it, and throws it into the sim - on a high level.

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Have to disagree with you all on this one, we all know that fsx default weather is far better and gives better depiction of weather :rolleyes:

+1 Any possibility to get FSX weather working with PMDG?

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+1 Any possibility to get FSX weather working with PMDG?

You actually thought he was serious?

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You actually thought he was serious?

 

I knew he was half serious, but I have been and still use FSX weather which I reckon is quite good especially after recently upgrading my computer.

 

So, is it possible to get it to work with PMDG's weather in SP1?  Wishing hard here ;)

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which I reckon is quite good especially after recently upgrading my computer.

 

It's actually rather terrible.

 

 

 


So, is it possible to get it to work with PMDG's weather in SP1?  Wishing hard here ;)

 

You referring to the weather radar?  If so, then no.

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