Malaysian 777 down in Ukraine

[g_precentralis 191]

Once again, we have airliners flying over hotspot areas globally right now. As of a few day's ago no 'major' threat to 'Civilian Airliners' flying the approved corridor under radar control was deemed to exist.  By major threat I mean none of the sides involved had stated any intention of targeting a civilian aircraft flying over it's airspace.  

Bot non of those hotspots contain such a powerful air defense. No one is really that stupid to sell such a thing to ISIL or similar "organization".

In Ukraine you have S-200, S300, BUK, KUB, Tor, and who knows what else, and all of that equipment is designed to shot down high flying objects.

The question is why restriction only applied from surface to FL320 when the weapon involved can reach well above 60k feet. Few days before crash media reported that pro-russian forces captured BUK air defense batteries. Even the news are false, Ukraine should close airspace like they did after MH17 crash, just as precaution. 

 

 

 

What we have here is group of untrained individuals operating outdated technology resulting in a major screw up.  No sides will benefit from this. I guarantee  behind the scenes heads will roll 'literally' among those responsible. 

 

 

We do not know yet who shot it down. There are 3 sides, all of them have equipment and are capable of such a thing. I do not buy reports by CNN, BBC, RT, nor any other state controlled news agency. They do not actually care about people died, just about their popularity rating, and to blame each others.

 

 

 

If you want to start putting blame on MA for this, you had better start blaming every airline doing the same thing globally. 

 

 

I do not have power and authority to blame anyone, but families involved would not sit and cry for sure.

[zmak 331]

Rob , lose the attitude!

 

What drivel? you just don't get it do you. As a licensed pilot Im fully aware of why an altitude request can be made however MA didn't go on Television to state they asked for a higher altitude because of TURBULENCE lol

 

They did so to show they were concerned about safety. Get it now?

[FLEX1978 373]

 

 

Bot non of those hotspots contain such a powerful air defense. No one is really that stupid to sell such a thing to ISIL or similar "organization".
In Ukraine you have S-200, S300, BUK, KUB, Tor, and who knows what else, and all of that equipment is designed to shot down high flying objects.
The question is why restriction only applied from surface to FL320 when the weapon involved can reach well above 60k feet. Few days before crash media reported that pro-russian forces captured BUK air defense batteries. Even the news are false, Ukraine should close airspace like they did after MH17 crash, just as precaution. 

 

Iraq,Afghanistan and many other areas have been supplied weapons by the US & Russia for decades. Who knows what they have managed to get their hands on & who knows what is for sale in the black market. ISIS recently paraded captured scud missile launchers.  

 

This is why myself and others keep mentioning hindsight, we are constantly surrounded by 'potential' risks. Plenty of other 'potential' disasters are waiting to happen if you look deep enough. 

 

The restriction was FL240 a 33% buffer zone was applied FL320, this was just a no fly zone, nothing to do with helping aircraft avoid surface to air missiles. MH17 could have cruised at it's ceiling and still been hit.

Rob , lose the attitude!

 

What drivel? you just don't get it do you. As a licensed pilot Im fully aware of why an altitude request can be made however MA didn't go on Television to state they asked for a higher altitude because of TURBULENCE lol

 

They did so to show they were concerned about safety. Get it now?

 

So you are stating MA are claiming the request to climb was to avoid potentially being shot down?  Absolute rubbish. FL350 was part of the step climb, ATC was unable to provide it. 

[g_precentralis 191]

 

 

Iraq,Afghanistan and many other areas have been supplied weapons by the US & Russia for decades. Who knows what they have managed to get their hands on & who knows what is for sale in the black market. ISIS recently paraded captured scud missile launchers.

 

Only with short range IR seeking missiles, no one sold high altitude air defense systems to anyone else but official governments. Scud is not air defense system. In theory it can hit aircraft, but without guidance chances are really slim. With that thing you shoot and pray it will fall in 200km radius of target.

[zmak 331]

Not even FL 600 would have helped. MA used it in the media to portray that they were concerned and wanted higher but were refused.

MA are hardly going to announce to the world they wanted a step climb even if that were the case

[Ray Proudfoot 8,960]

 

 

I do not buy reports by CNN, BBC, RT, nor any other state controlled news agency.

 

The BBC is not controlled by the 'state' or British Government. Get your facts right before you make ridiculous statements like that. :mad:

[g_precentralis 191]

To answer you, I would close all hotspots for civilian air traffic, but no one ask me.

 

The BBC is not controlled by the 'state' or British Government. Get your facts right before you make ridiculous statements like that. :mad:

I'm not going into politics here. Believe whatever you want :smile:

[FLEX1978 373]

Not even FL 600 would have helped. MA used it in the media to portray that they were concerned and wanted higher but were refused.

MA are hardly going to announce to the world they wanted a step climb even if that were the case

 

It's not about announcing it to world. It will be part of the flight plan. That is not something they can hide.  As you have said FL600 would still have got them killed, it seems ridiculous that they would claim they wanted an extra 2000ft on top of the 33% buffer zone.  24000 & below was simply a no fly zone to protect those on the ground & likely also to avoid air movement of supplies.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,960]

 

 

I'm not going into politics here. Believe whatever you want

 

But it was YOU that ventured into politics by making that statement. Discussion over.

[g_precentralis 191]

But it was YOU that ventured into politics by making that statement. Discussion over.

Nope, never said any political thing here. But if I start to explain further, it may end up in politics, so I choose to stay aside. Discussion over.

[bendead 1,085]

Here is a map showing last week flights over Ukraine :

 

 

 

 

 

I don't blame Malaysian Airline nor the flight authorities, but the ######s that shot the missile

[zmak 331]

MA released information regarding a higher FL being declined because of heavy criticism regarding the cruising altitude of 33000ft being to close to the restricted zone of 32000ft. That is the only reason that the info was released to the public.

It has nothing to do with missile range but whether this may have contributed to what is believed to be a case of mistaken identity as perceived by the general public

[mgh 89]

Correct.  See ICAO Annex 13. 

 

A State which has a special interest in an accident by

virtue of fatalities or serious injuries to its citizens shall, upon

making a request to do so, be permitted by the State conducting

the investigation to appoint an expert who shall be

entitled to:

a) visit the scene of the accident;

B) have access to the relevant factual information;

c) participate in the identification of the victims;

d) assist in questioning surviving passengers who are

citizens of the expert’s State; and

e) receive a copy of the Final Report.

 

scott s.

.

 

That is true, but such a state is not entitled to participate in the  actual investigation.

 

 

I do not buy reports by CNN, BBC, RT, nor any other state controlled news agency.

 

Surely it isn't politics to ask where you get your news from and its quality?

 

Also, it's not politics to correct a factual error about the BBC.

[Jim Young 2,356]

Here's one more warning about this topic and politics. They don't mix here at AVSIM. We will be banning those from this topic only if they violate this warning as we have already done. Okay?

 

Best regards,

[tf51d 284]

 

 

So you are stating MA are claiming the request to climb was to avoid potentially being shot down? Absolute rubbish. FL350 was part of the step climb, ATC was unable to provide it.

 

Even if it was a vain attempt to avoid trouble, which I agree with you is highly unlikely, it wouldn't have worked anyway! The type of missile thought to be responsible has an effective capability of up to FL700+