This was done by professionals with training.

If you say so.

Yes, TAMAK is at Ukraine/Russia border. I understand that, but they would not file a completely new flight plan because of that. It's enough to ask ATC directly when you are ready for stepclimb regardless of what you filed previously. You have to ask ATC anyway, no matter your stepclimb is approved by Eurocontrol when you filed FP.

However the intended step climb is actually at PEKIT. The wrong wypt has been highlighted

However the intended step climb is actually at PEKIT. The wrong wypt has been highlighted

 

Yes, you are right, I completely missed that. PEKIT is located at Dnipropetrovs'k FIR entry, and that would confirm the press release by MH executive.

 

Anyway, unrelated to the story, I'm confused why they would put the same speed/altitude request at the two consecutive (actually theres one more fix in between) fixes.

 

 

This was done by professionals with training.

Those professionals with training could be defectors from the Ukrainian military, could they not?

 

(CNN) -- Why was Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 flying over war-torn eastern Ukraine?

 

"We, along with hundreds of other airlines, have flown that route safely for quite some time," Hugh Dunleavy, commercial director for Malaysia Airlines, told CNN's Saima Mohsin over the weekend. "Primarily we flew that route because we were advised that this was a safe corridor and there would be no incidents." Dunleavy said the plane, which was traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, adjusted its altitude on its way across Europe under the direction of air traffic control. Now, he said the airline is reassessing the route it uses for that flight. And since Thursday's crash, commercial airlines that usually cross eastern Ukraine on their flights to Europe, Asia and elsewhere have been detouring away from the volatile region.

But far beyond Ukraine's borders, analysts say the incident could pave the way for new guidelines for how close planes can fly to conflict zones. "The rules in aviation are written in blood, or a tombstone mentality if you like," CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien said. "What happens is, people die, and things get safer." David Soucie, a CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector, said the situation highlights the need for change in an antiquated system that has what he calls a "flaw in the evaluation of the risk."

 

You can read the entire article here.

The SA-11 system does actually consist of separate radar and launcher vehicles. The launcher only has a fire control radar, though capable of limited autonomous operation, would have much difficulty acquiring a target on it's own especially if it was at 33000' above a cloud layer. Whether the SA-11 is as sophisticated as a Patriot or not is not the issue, since it is sophisticated enough, being one of Russia's frontline air defenses, capable of hitting extremely low to extremely high altitude aircraft and missiles. It took more than just a rebel with a copy of a manual to hit that plane. This was done by professionals with training.

 

It looks as if the rebels did not have a radar vehicle, which may well have contributed to the mis-identification.

 

See here:

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/11584799/without-radar-missile-may-not-have-identified-jet

Those professionals with training could be defectors from the Ukrainian military, could they not?

They can be whatever you like them to be.

It looks as if the rebels did not have a radar vehicle, which may well have contributed to the mis-identification.

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There is no possible way to misidentify anything without the radar element. How can you misidentifyi when no attemp was made to identify? The standalone FCR at the launcher had no interrogation capability. You can't say there was a mistake in identification when they had no means to identify their target.

There is no possible way to misidentify anything without the radar element. How can you misidentifyi when no attemp was made to identify? The standalone FCR at the launcher had no interrogation capability. You can't say there was a mistake in identification when they had no means to identify their target.

 

You can use more primitive methods to identify an aircraft, such as speed, altitude, flight path etc. It doesn't always have to be IFF.

The year 2014 is already marked by great tragedies, it now remains to take the maximum advantage of the facts to try to prevent future situations.
On the fact itself, the missile is likely that down the MH17:
After the target has been located by a radar station, after firing the missile it acts on its own or continues depending on ground station radar to guide to the target?

 

João Alfredo

After the target has been located by a radar station, after firing the missile it acts on its own or continues depending on ground station radar to guide to the target?

 

 

BUK (if BUK air defense system actually was used) missiles are semi-active until terminal phase of flight when they continue on it's own. I believe termination of flight is possible at any moment via separate channel.

Here is a very interesting article - almost an analysis - of the damage to MH17. The picture of what appears to be the port-side fuselage below the pilots' cockpit windows is very interesting...

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/a-uk-analyst-says-early-clues-indicate-a-missile-exploded-in-front-of-mh17s-frontleft-engine-pod/story-fniztvnh-1226996918073

Here is a very interesting article - almost an analysis - of the damage to MH17. The picture of what appears to be the port-side fuselage below the pilots' cockpit windows is very interesting...

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/a-uk-analyst-says-early-clues-indicate-a-missile-exploded-in-front-of-mh17s-frontleft-engine-pod/story-fniztvnh-1226996918073

Air crash investigation is now very sophisticated. But, let's hope that when the investigators 'are' allowed full access these pieces amongst others remain and haven't been spirited away.

Air crash investigation is now very sophisticated. But, let's hope that when the investigators 'are' allowed full access these pieces amongst others remain and haven't been spirited away.

Not sure in this case under the circumstances an onsite investigation is needed, other then to recover the remains of the victims. There are some real safety concerns to the investigators, some have already been fired on. Besides the missile launch signature that the US satellite picked up, they have a recorded communication from a rebel leader to a Russian Commander pretty much acknowledging that they shot the plane down thinking it was a Ukrainian Cargo plane, but realizing it was a Commercial Airliner. So we pretty much know what happened. I don't think putting personnel on the ground, in a potentially hostile environment is worth the risk, especially since they turned over the flight recorders.

Just being able to get a sample of explosive residue will tell investigators what type of missile it was that brought the airliner down, so hopefully there is still some actionable evidence there.

Not sure in this case under the circumstances an onsite investigation is needed, other then to recover the remains of the victims. There are some real safety concerns to the investigators, some have already been fired on. Besides the missile launch signature that the US satellite picked up, they have a recorded communication from a rebel leader to a Russian Commander pretty much acknowledging that they shot the plane down thinking it was a Ukrainian Cargo plane, but realizing it was a Commercial Airliner. So we pretty much know what happened. I don't think putting personnel on the ground, in a potentially hostile environment is worth the risk, especially since they turned over the flight recorders.

Unfortunately the flight recorders will give very little information.

The time the a/c disintegrated.

Whether the a/c disintegrated immediately or soon after

What was being said, if anything up to the moment of destruction

Confirmation of the aircraft's flightpath and altitude.

 

That's about it! They need to get to the site and go through the wreckage to find out how the a/c broke up. What caused it and any explosive residue.

If they find explosive residue they will be able to confirm what type of missile it originated from. Also they need to find a destruction pattern which would pin point from where the missile approached the a/c and where in its vicinity it detonated.