For what it's worth, I've used Wolfram Alpha to approximate a function for the level-XP point graph.

 

 

f(x) = 3.95774 x^4-74.3675 x^3+1266.32 x^2-2331.25 x+1415.75

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=quartic+fit+%7B1%2C+0%7D%2C%7B3%2C+4750%7D%2C%7B5%2C+14750%7D%2C%7B7%2C+30375%7D%2C%7B9%2C+54125%7D%2C%7B11%2C+89125%7D%2C%7B13%2C+135375%7D%2C%7B15%2C+199125%7D%2C%7B17%2C+294125%7D%2C%7B19%2C+419125%7D%2C%7B20%2C+500000%7D

I'm guessing the official levels were just set by eyeballing it and not a whole lot of time or thought was put into it.

That would make sense. If there were a function to generate level thresholds, there probably wouldn't need to be a definitions file.

Please...let's not start an outrage here!  
 

Kavinda -
That's an entirely different extrapolation,
from the one you'd originally shared with me.

Erm.. I didn't change anything since I posted the original Excel file with my workings. If you mean the level I mentioned in my previous post.. I was referring to Steve's level on Flight. 

 

Kavinda's scale
Level 40 == 5,345,250
Level 50 == 11,465,250

Those figures are wrong, don't look at the .xml file that was provided. The .XML was my initial "predictions." Instead open this on a browser; its the Excel file which contains my new figures. 
 
 

I can't see anything there,  
other than you'd just plugged in some numbers
to generate what supposedly looks like
an approximate replication of MS's progression.     

Maybe generate a D3 column,
then take another look at your increments.

I usually like to go with the flow. As Steve has already mentioned, there hasn't been a lot of thought gone into the definitions. Instead of trying to get the exact values, wouldn't an "approximate replication" be enough?

Also, what about the people that are still trying to proceed from level 20 on-wards? They are more likely to not even bother about what level they are on. Personally, I want the levels to have a steady progress like levels 2 - 20 ... otherwise, Flight would just get too difficult.  :mellow: 


I really don't know how you got that integer sequence...please explain.

     + A D3 column is useless! No pattern whatsoever.

 

If someone has Flight's official career-progression,
or even the integer sequence, (see above),
it'd be much prefered & appreciated.

Highly Unlikely..

Hi Folks
 

Please...let's not start an outrage here!

Its only a game,
and I appreciate your posts were made with good intent.


N.B.
I'll have to split this into two parts,
as this forum's software restricts the number of quotes per post,
also I've had to recombine some quotes, (sections separated by <snipped>),

2nd part will have to be tomorrow, am.
This forum's software keeps trying to merge the two posts,
then refuses to allow posting, as per above.

---

I'd already composed my reply citing your original data.
I'd gone to submit it, but read the new posts first.
 

:cough: :cough:

My Level 50 : 13,350,250 XP
Paul's Level 50 : 50,000,000 XP

Made me recheck your spreadsheet.

All the figures I'd quoted
are directly from your Excel file
Named - Microsoft Flight Level Calibration.xlsx
Created - 20 August 2014 19:35:20

---

Erm..
I didn't change anything since I posted the original Excel file with my workings.

<snipped>

Those figures are wrong

 

You posted 2 Mediafire links -
- 20 August 2014 - 07:39 PM - "This is what I had worked out."
- 21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM - "Did you look at this? I have worked it out! All the differences.. I urge you to take a look."

Your statement "Did you look at this?"
clearly infers that both links
are supposedly to the same source file.

If they were links to two different versions,
then nobody could have looked at it previously,
as the first time you'd linked that version was - 21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM.


The two files are different.

Original version -
AVSIM link 20 August 2014 - 07:39 PM
File size: 9.45 KB
Uploaded: 2014-08-20 13:38:51 (TZ unknown)
Content ZIP file containing an Excel workbook and an xml file.
Creation Date 20 August 2014, 19:35:20

Modified version -
AVSIM link 21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM
File size: 11.25 KB
Uploaded: 2014-08-21 17:07:49 (TZ unknown)
Content Direct link to a live Excel workbook.
Creation Date Direct link sets ALL dates to downloaded time.


Each contain an Excel workbook with the same filename -
Microsoft Flight Level Calibration.xlsx
but those workbook's contents are different.

e.g.
2014-08-20 13:38:51 -
50 11465250 811000 40000

2014-08-21 17:07:49 -
50 13350250 798500 40000


Hope thats clear now ?

---

I usually like to go with the flow.
As Steve has already mentioned, there hasn't been a lot of thought gone into the definitions.

<snipped>

Instead of trying to get the exact values, wouldn't an "approximate replication" be enough?

<snipped>

Also, what about the people that are still trying to proceed from level 20 on-wards?
They are more likely to not even bother about what level they are on.
Personally,
I want the levels to have a steady progress like levels 2 - 20 ...
otherwise, Flight would just get too difficult. :mellow:

Response 1 -
Steve said "I'm guessing".

Whilst not apparent from the Levels 1-20 CareerTrackDefinitions alone,
personally, I think a fair amount of work went into the mission's scoring system,
their XP awarded, and their related Level unlocks for mission types.


Response 2 -
Take a look at the various mission's code.
XP to Level translations are core to introducing various gameplay aspects.
See Job type examples below.
 

Response 3 -
With your Level 50 for 11 million XP
you're potentially getting into the realms of -
-  Credit me with extra levels, coz meawwanna look brill.   

And again, takes no account of -
- Everyone with higher flying hours.
- That once you've completed the missions & challenges, the only way to earn additional XP is to fly Jobs.
- The impact of higher-capacity aircraft on XP earnings per Job.
- The incentive of earning more XP per flight.

Your above also doesn't match what you'd said previously.

:cough: :cough:

<snipped>

Also, getting to those higher levels must be a challenge!
When going up levels, the difference to the next must be higher.
What would the point of a "game" be without a challenge?

It shouldn't be a walk in the park...

The release of the Alaska Wilderness pack
would likely have contained a replacement CareerTrackDefinitions file,
IF the associated airplane DLCs had been made available, as intended.

That replacement CareerTrackDefinitions progression
would at minimum, have taken account of scoring requirements
for Light-Medium class aircraft mission packages, ( <= 19 Pax), (Commuter category).

Light-Medium class increased capacities and ranges,
potentially earning 5.4 times the XP per Job flight.

Medium class aircraft's increased capacities and ranges,
potentially earning 35 times the XP per Job flight.



2nd part tomorrow am.

HTH
ATB
Paul

Hi Folks

Part 2

---

Taking a look at some Job type examples,
the Level unlocks for various mission/job types are -

Level	Mission		Pax/Pounds
3	Hamburger		1
4	Biplane Tour		1
5	Cargo Light		1,000
5	Cargo Light Animals	1,000
7	Medical			2
9	Cargo Light Clandestine	1,000
11	Pax Charter 2-4		4

Bearing in mind -
- CareerTrackDefinitions as released, sets Level 20 at 500,000 XP.
- Aerocaches alone can earn 1,010,000 XP.

At what Levels would you
then unlock each of the following ?

5	Cargo Light	1,000
?	Cargo Light 2		2,100
?	Cargo Light-Medium	5,500
?	Cargo Medium		18,000

9	Cargo Light Clandestine	1,000
?	Cargo Light2		2,100
?	Cargo Light-Medium Clandestine	5,500
?	Cargo Medium Clandestine	18,000

11	Pax Charter 2-4		4
?	Pax Charter 3-6		6
?	Pax Charter 6-9		9
?	Pax Charter 10-19	19
?	Pax Charter 20-65	65

N.B.
Above are just examples.
They're not the unlock mechanisms I've implemented.

---

I really don't know how you got that integer sequence...
please explain.

+ A D3 column is useless! No pattern whatsoever.

 

For MS's values, it has significance,
for your 'guessed' values, it doesn't.

But my apologies, I'd read the wrong column title.    :blush:
Its the D2 that's really relevant to this discussion.

Take the D2's for MS's values ONLY.
Sort numeric, unique.

Recognise them, or see any pattern ?
They're all decimal n/sixteenths * 10k
The multipliers used to calculate the XP-Level difference progression.

---

If someone has Flight's official career-progression,
or even the integer sequence, (see above),
it'd be much prefered & appreciated.

Highly Unlikely..

 

Think back to the beta, 04/01/2012,
the invited beta-tester product, only had a 10-level CareerTrackDefinitions file.

Beta -
Level 10 == 500,000 XP

Whereas RTW -
Level 10 == 50,000 XP

There was a beta-forum thread about testers being in multi-player,
who'd encountered players with Levels > 10, (IIRC, Level 43),
and subsequently a lot of ....... about fake/hacked profile XP/Levels.

Those were possibly/probably long-term players,
e.g. ms employees, alpha-testers, xbox launch team, other test orgs.

A file is out there.....

---

My interest is in supporting all users who fly.

If no official version is made available,
I've a 100 Level solution which addresses all player's participation
I'll release it as version 2 update to my addon.

I'm going to hold of until I've completed -
- The Jobs for Medium sized aircraft.
- Some other bits.

Meantime,
I'd like to see what the take-up is for the current addon,
to compare with the version 2 update, post Medium Jobs release.


HTH
ATB
Paul

You posted 2 Mediafire links -

- 20 August 2014 - 07:39 PM - "This is what I had worked out."

- 21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM - "Did you look at this? I have worked it out! All the differences.. I urge you to take a look."

 

Your statement "Did you look at this?"

clearly infers that both links

are supposedly to the same source file.

 

If they were links to two different versions,

then nobody could have looked at it previously,

as the first time you'd linked that version was - 21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM.

 

 

The two files are different.

 

Original version -

AVSIM link 20 August 2014 - 07:39 PM

File size: 9.45 KB

Uploaded: 2014-08-20 13:38:51 (TZ unknown)

Content ZIP file containing an Excel workbook and an xml file.

Creation Date 20 August 2014, 19:35:20

 

Modified version -

AVSIM link 21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM

File size: 11.25 KB

Uploaded: 2014-08-21 17:07:49 (TZ unknown)

Content Direct link to a live Excel workbook.

Creation Date Direct link sets ALL dates to downloaded time.

 

 

Each contain an Excel workbook with the same filename -

Microsoft Flight Level Calibration.xlsx

but those workbook's contents are different.

 

e.g.

2014-08-20 13:38:51 -

50 11465250 811000 40000

 

2014-08-21 17:07:49 -

50 13350250 798500 40000

 

 

Hope thats clear now ?

Paul, seriously.. I just checked from my MediaFire... both files are exactly the same!

Here's the evidence:

 

1. I downloaded both files and put them on my desktop:

 

 

2. Then I needed to extract the .zip file:

 

 

3.Why do I then get this error?!!! It's because both files are the same!

 

 

You are looking at the .XML File not the Excel one!  :excl:

 

---

 

For MS's values, it has significance,

for your 'guessed' values, it doesn't.

 

But my apologies, I'd read the wrong column title.    :blush:

Its the D2 that's really relevant to this discussion.

 

Take the D2's for MS's values ONLY.

Sort numeric, unique.

 

Recognise them, or see any pattern ?

If you see this as a pattern, then I'm slightly worried:

D2: Levels 1 -20

2750
625
1250
1250
1875
1250
3750
2500
2500
2500
3750
3750
6250
7500
10000
7500
5000
15875

That difference jumps around in places.. there is no mathematical sequence which can be used to predict what the XP of the next level is...

 

Normally in sequences we use the nth term which relies on a difference between each of the numbers. You have to use the levels 1-20 to predict the next levels, but you are telling us that we should ignore them?

 

Also have you read Orion's post about the level thresholds? You really can't question Steve, since he has worked at Microsoft and most likely would have seen how the Definitions were made.

 

Think back to the beta, 04/01/2012,

the invited beta-tester product, only had a 10-level CareerTrackDefinitions file.

 

Beta -

Level 10 == 500,000 XP

 

Whereas RTW -

Level 10 == 50,000 XP

 

There was a beta-forum thread about testers being in multi-player,

who'd encountered players with Levels > 10, (IIRC, Level 43),

and subsequently a lot of ....... about fake/hacked profile XP/Levels.

 

Those were possibly/probably long-term players,

e.g. ms employees, alpha-testers, xbox launch team, other test orgs.

 

A file is out there.....

 

Microsoft were probably intending to change or update the Definitions until further DLC were released, which unfortunately, they couldn't do. It was too early to change it, just after the release of the Alaskan Wilderness Pack.

 

     We're not sorting things out with the Beta.

 

---

 

I agree with your Job XP Unlock Boundaries but there is no way to tell if everyone is beyond Level 20. With your Definitions, it would just take too long to get ahead. The jump between each level is too large!

 

I wish to end this here, Paul. I suggest you carry on with your 100 levels. You cannot be hunting for a single file in the Flight Simulator Franchise... that's a path you shouldn't take. It'll just waste time!

 

But at the end of the day... I still agree with Steve; the definitions were just "eyeballed."

Hi Folks

Kavinda -

Open the downloaded spreadsheets.
Level 50 == 11,465,250

Sorry, it was your ONLINE version thats different.

---

20 August 2014 - 07:39 PM - "This is what I had worked out."
Link - Original
http://www.mediafire.com/download/4g2y5sc1z665fqj/MS_Flight_Level_Calibration.zip
Values -
Level 50 == 11,465,250

N.B.
The only .xml file that was provided, contains the exact same values.
Level 50 == 11,465,250


21 August 2014 - 11:08 PM - "Did you look at this? I have worked it out! All the differences.. I urge you to take a look."
Link - Modified
http://www.mediafire.com/view/459u3k5poet0905/Microsoft_Flight_Level_Calibration.xlsx
Values -
Level 50 == 13,350,250


You then even quoted the modified online version's values.
 

:cough: :cough:

My Level 50 : 13,350,250 XP
Paul's Level 50 : 50,000,000 XP

As previously,
your above :cough: :cough: post
had prompted my original comment about changes, (from 11,465,250)

Confirmed by following your later post's instructions -

Erm..
I didn't change anything since I posted the original Excel file with my workings.

<snipped>

Those figures are wrong,

<snipped>

Instead open this on a browser; its the Excel file which contains my new figures.

 
Same link -
http://www.mediafire.com/view/459u3k5poet0905/Microsoft_Flight_Level_Calibration.xlsx
Values -
Level 50 == 13,350,250

i.e. Not Level 50 == 11,465,250 values

---

 

If you see this as a pattern, then I'm slightly worried:

D2: Levels 1 -20
<snipped>

That difference jumps around in places.. there is no mathematical sequence which can be used to predict what the XP of the next level is...

Please stop misquoting/misattributing.   

Re-read my post, and follow the instructions.

Take the D2's for MS's values ONLY.
Sort numeric, unique.

Recognise them, or see any pattern ?
They're all decimal n/sixteenths * 10k
The multipliers used to calculate the XP-Level difference progression.

Again, here is the sequence -

6, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 22, 26, 30, 34, 40, 46, 56, 68, 84, 96, 104

Level 2 & 20 being bodged for targeted fit,
Similarly 18, 19, feathered-in to match 20.

---

To get round this forums quote limits -


"It was too early to change it, just after the release of the Alaskan Wilderness Pack."

No, they pulled the aircraft DLC,
so had to pull their associated missions.



"We're not sorting things out with the Beta."

I didn't suggest using the beta.
I said -
- invited beta users had a specific file.
- others had a different file.



"there is no way to tell if everyone is beyond Level 20."

Please explain.
I don't understand your supposition that everyone needs to be beyond level 20.



"With your Definitions, it would just take too long to get ahead. The jump between each level is too large!"

Suggest flying a clandestine, then look at your completion score.
That score will be for 1000 lbs max, now extrapolate it for 18,000 lbs.



HTH
ATB
Paul

OK. I got that now.. I got mixed up with the online version and the packed version! I don't know why but the online version shows 13,350,250 but the downloaded excel document shows 11,465,250
I have no idea why.

---

 
I have looked at D2... How did you work out the sequence? Did you do it mathematically? 

Sure, they increase but where did you get the multipliers from!? 

 

The only thing that provides evidence here is Orion's XP point graph

 

---

As I have already said.. I wish to end this here Paul and as you have rightly said yourself..this is just a game, but its a bit confusing why you are arguing about it so much.

In the new version of the toolkit version 1.0.23.5, on the definitions of career-track update Core UI, stopped working returned to the original (20) I was in (36), anyone experienced this problem, I wonder if Paul has a solution to fix the level of career, I hope there will be a fix.

After installing the Career-track update today, Flight no longer will start.  It gets to the initial Flight splash screen then hangs.

I was using toolkit version 1.0.23.5.  Unchecking the Career-track box had no effect.

Any ideas? 

Back in business again.

After resetting and restarting a couple of different ways, I got Flight running again.  I have 1.0.23.5 up again too with the career-track box unchecked.  I'll leave it that way for now.

Hi Folks

Gents, you are conflating symptom with cause.

Its like saying Flight didn't launch
because you had a Quarter Pounder for lunch, rather than a Big Mac.
 
 
 
The cause is nothing whatsoever to do with the CareerTrackDefinitions upgrade,
all it does is translate your profile's XP to Level ranking,
in exactly the same way as the MS original does.
 
 
 
Flight does launch successfully, it's just a little slow in doing so.
That delay occurs, whether or not the CareerTrackDefinitions upgrade is installed.
 
 
 
The cause of the delay is FTK v1.0.23.5,

(and possibly previous versions since MS's profile server shutdown),
not communicating correctly with Steve's profile server.

Steve has already fixed this in v1.0.24.5, (confirmed working Friday).
Just awaiting his public release.
 

 

 
EDIT -

Whilst using FTK v1.0.23.5, all changes to your Career Profile will not be credited.

i.e. flying hours, XP earned, missions flown, etc. will be lost.

Crash your aircraft to your heart's content.  

 

 
 
Again,

the cause of the delay

is nothing whatsoever to do with the CareerTrackDefinitions upgrade.
 
 

 

elykay -

Please answer each of the following questions -

 

In Flight's menu - Pilot Profile - Career -

? How many XP does it report you've actually earned ?

 

 

With FTK v1.0.24.5 -

? Are you using the same LIVE profile, as when MS's servers were running ?

? Did you actually ever sync your profile ? (By launching FTK AddonBuilder whilst Flight was running).

? Did you use an OFFLINE profile ?

? Did you create a new profile ?

 

 

 

Other actions -

Launch FTK Addon Manager.

? Is the Installed tickbox for CareerTrackDefinitions upgrade, actually ticked ?

 

If ticked, untick it.

Exit Addon Manager.

 

Restart Addon Manager.

Tick the CareerTrackDefinitions tickbox.

Exit Addon Manager.

 

Launch Flight,

In Flight's menu - Pilot Profile - Career -

? How many XP does it report you've actually earned ?

 

 

 

Otherwise you'll have to wait till FTK v1.0.24.5 is released.
 

 

 
HTH
ATB
Paul

Paul is right,

 

There is nothing wrong with the upgrade and it is all working fine for me. After elykay first mentioned the symptom, I just waited to see if anyone else was experiencing the same problem. Just as Paul mentioned, Flight is getting slower because of the Toolkit itself and not because of his upgrade. Just to clarify, the upgrade is a direct extension of an .spb file, already present in the public release of Flight.

 

If you do experience a hanging Splash screen or Flight does not load at all, then try the following to jumpstart the application:

 

1. Press Ctrl + Shift + Escape on your keyboard and this will load up Task Manager

2. Go to the processes tab and Click on Flight.exe in the List Box

3. Click End Process

4. Launch Flight again and wait for the response

 

The above steps should make Flight more responsive and should reduce the delay. I use this fix quite a lot and has saved me quite a lot of time.

I hope it helps you lot too!

I wasn't aware that there were performance problems with 1.0.23.5.  What is the cause?