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The Final L-1011 Passenger Flight

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I thought the L1-1011s went to those graveyards in the Arizona desert ages ago?

 

That misleading topic title had me wondering had a 'ghost' L1-1011 appeared, maybe Just Flight's soon-to-be-upgraded Professional!

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Maybe the OP has never heard of an MD11

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Nevertheless, the link was a fascinating read, not only about KLM's last   'Audrey Hepburn'    flight from Montreal-Amsterdam, but also exploring why that particular aircraft fared so badly in the commercial world. And despite the bleatings from simmers asking PMDG to upgrade the MD-11, I for one cannot see it happening.

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Nevertheless, the link was a fascinating read, not only about KLM's last   'Audrey Hepburn'    flight from Montreal-Amsterdam, but also exploring why that particular aircraft fared so badly in the commercial world. And despite the bleatings from simmers asking PMDG to upgrade the MD-11, I for one cannot see it happening.

 

 

The MD11 is an excellent cargo hauler and very prominent in that world just like the 757 will be and the 744 in future years.  These aircraft after long gone from the commercial/passenger market are very alive in the cargo world.  That alone deserves a place in the FS world espeically with an amazing rendition already available from PMDG.  If people can justify a 737-100/200 or L1011 in FS which isn't flying anywhere for the most part surely an active cargo aircraft that will be around well into the future deserves a second thought. 

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Actually L-1011 is still flying for 1 or 2 airliners from Africa I bealive!!

 

Globe Jet has 5 in it's fleet!!

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Nice read! And yet it will fly in the Virtual FS world forever and not age at all.

What a minutes! Is FS airplane heaven?

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The MD11 is an excellent cargo hauler and very prominent in that world just like the 757 will be and the 744 in future years.  These aircraft after long gone from the commercial/passenger market are very alive in the cargo world.  That alone deserves a place in the FS world espeically with an amazing rendition already available from PMDG.  If people can justify a 737-100/200 or L1011 in FS which isn't flying anywhere for the most part surely an active cargo aircraft that will be around well into the future deserves a second thought. 

Valid point, but question is, (a) is there a market out there seeing a prominent developer like PMDG could not attract large enough sales to throw resources at it in a follow-up, in the first instance, and (b) which developer will be brave enough to take this venture on? A handful of FS enthusiasts does not underwrite the pay-checks for the developers.

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Actually L-1011 is still flying for 1 or 2 airliners from Africa I bealive!!

 

Globe Jet has 5 in it's fleet!!

 

 

Again, it isn't flying anywhere in the real world 'for the most part'.

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Valid point, but question is, (a) is there a market out there seeing a prominent developer like PMDG could not attract large enough sales to throw resources at it in a follow-up, in the first instance, and ( B) which developer will be brave enough to take this venture on? A handful of FS enthusiasts does not underwrite the pay-checks for the developers.

 

 

Actually it did quite well in the FSX market upon release because at the time not that much was out there on that level at the time for FSX.  On the FS9 side people were distraught the 737 was not chosen first knowing full well FS9 was on borrowed time with PMDG.  The climate today has changed as once people got their hands on PMDG's MD11 they liked it.  I was one that hated it was chosen first over the 737 at the time but just the same once I got it I loved it.  Now fast forward to today when the NGX is a matured aircraft on the market, the 777 is out, and P3D is a reality.  Seeing as in many areas P3D is an updated FSX it's not like building a whole new aircraft to make the MD11 compatible with P3D.  The market is asking for it as FSX users who want as much of their add-ons in P3D want this bird as well.  Same goes for those going from FS9 to P3D.  No one is asking for a total rebuild just make the current one compatible.  There is plenty of support for this and development would be less work than the 744 their currently working on.

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There is plenty of support for this and

Enough to equate to sales enough to plough back? I'm one of those MD-11 fans that bought the FS9 and the FSX versions. There is nothing I'd want more, but will it happen? I doubt it.

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What do you mean it's not flying in the real world??

 

 

When I say 'For the most Part' what I'm saying is if only one or two airlines are using it, it's basically dead.  In comparison to 64 rotated over to Fedex and 38 with UPS with no plans of phasing them out in the near future.  Heck that KLM bird is most likely heading to cargo service after it leaves Amsterdam.  In contrast the L1011 most likely doesn't have 5 being used at one time with any airline and no option to migrate into cargo operations.  It's about as dead as the 737-100/200.  So there is a point if we can have a great L1011 in P3D by CS and others it would be nice if PMDG considers their work for P3D as well.  After all it's still a major player in the cargo world.

Enough to equate to sales enough to plough back? I'm one of those MD-11 fans that bought the FS9 and the FSX versions. There is nothing I'd want more, but will it happen? I doubt it.

 

 

I doubted PMDG would ever consider anything else outside of FSX at one point (unless Microsoft got back in the game) but here we are...  If people speak out enough it could happen.  Again a total rebuild is not needed, just support it and make it function in P3Dv2.

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Oh, I see your point and I agree, MD11 will fly for maybe another 10yrs in cargo operation all over the world!

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Heck that KLM bird is most likely heading to cargo service after it leaves Amsterdam.

No, it won't. It'll be parted out and scrapped, just like her sisters.

There are no MD-11 conversion kits left, so it's impossible to convert one from pax to freighter.

 

Also, PMDG does do their market research, in contrary to what a lot of people think. They have stated quite a few times that the majority (by far) of their customer base sits outside this forum. The MD-11 wasn't a popular bird in the real world, neither was it one for PMDG. The only place where it seems to be popular, is on the AVSIM forums.

The original MD-11 by PMDG was far from a succes. With fewer and fewer in active service, what makes you think a newly built MD-11v2 would be any different? Sure, they could add it to the "Lite Line", but I don't see that happening with such a complex bird.
They've also said reworking the old version is not an option, their method of coding and implementing has moved on.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge MD-11 fan myself (just ask my girlfriend), I'm devastated that I never got a chance to fly with her. But it just won't happen, at least not from PMDG.
Perhaps CS is willing to do it, but we all know how that's going to end...

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Precisely the point that I was trying to make, Thomas, as I'm like a lot of simmers who bought into the PMDG version, a big fan of the MD-11. Regrettably, as you have so succinctly pointed out, developers live on the cash turnstiles, not wishlists.

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Also, PMDG does do their market research, in contrary to what a lot of people think. They have stated quite a few times that the majority (by far) of their customer base sits outside this forum. The MD-11 wasn't a popular bird in the real world, neither was it one for PMDG. The only place where it seems to be popular, is on the AVSIM forums.

The original MD-11 by PMDG was far from a succes. With fewer and fewer in active service, what makes you think a newly built MD-11v2 would be any different? Sure, they could add it to the "Lite Line", but I don't see that happening with such a complex bird.

They've also said reworking the old version is not an option, their method of coding and implementing has moved on.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge MD-11 fan myself (just ask my girlfriend), I'm devastated that I never got a chance to fly with her. But it just won't happen, at least not from PMDG.

Perhaps CS is willing to do it, but we all know how that's going to end...

 

 

If that's the case why did they release it ahead of the 737 in the first place?  Second they told us the 737NGX would not sell in the FS9 market yet iFly came and blew that out the water.  I take allot of what these developers say with a grain of salt.  

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Also, PMDG does do their market research, in contrary to what a lot of people think. They have stated quite a few times that the majority (by far) of their customer base sits outside this forum. The MD-11 wasn't a popular bird in the real world, neither was it one for PMDG. The only place where it seems to be popular, is on the AVSIM forums.

The original MD-11 by PMDG was far from a succes. With fewer and fewer in active service, what makes you think a newly built MD-11v2 would be any different? Sure, they could add it to the "Lite Line", but I don't see that happening with such a complex bird.

They've also said reworking the old version is not an option, their method of coding and implementing has moved on.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge MD-11 fan myself (just ask my girlfriend), I'm devastated that I never got a chance to fly with her. But it just won't happen, at least not from PMDG.

Perhaps CS is willing to do it, but we all know how that's going to end...

 

 

If that's the case why did they release the MD11 ahead of the 737 in the first place so many years ago?  Second they (PMDG) told us the 737NGX wouldn't sell in the FS9 market yet iFly came in and blew that faulty theory out the water.  I take allot of what some of these developers say with a grain of salt as the underlying reason many times is they just want to do what they want to do for a host of other reasons.  FS9 had allot of aircraft options at the time plus most wanted an updated 737NG so the MD11 initially did not do well on the FS9 side which is something that should have been known well before release (it wasn't like people were screaming for an MD11 but they sure loudly asked for the 737).  The results of the MD11/FS9 poor sale performance spear headed the reasoning of moving away from FS9 prematurely.  Many feared PMDG was swaying this way that's why there was such disappointment in the MD11 choice at the time.  iFly's 737 project proved there was indeed a vibrant FS9 purchasing market still out there (with the right product people will come, the same will happen today with iFly's 744 for FS9).  The bottom line is listen to customers and you'll have success, Microsoft with Ballmer at the helm couldn't figure this out that's why Flight and Windows 8 was such a disaster.  iFly is doing it right by releasing their produce for FS9/FSX/P3D as people are using all those sims.  The MD11 years ago did very well with FSX sales.  I was a late to embracing the MD11 for FS9 but once I did I was amazed at what PMDG accomplished.  This goes for anyone who has used it.  So today any current FSX/FS9 user of the MD11 will more than welcome it for P3D.  This is not just me talking or forum members commenting this is common since.  :drinks:

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Not sure about the MD-11, but the L1011 was still used until this year (military) and there are apparently 3 still air worthy.  To be noted the L1011 has a better safety record than the 747, DC10, and Airbus A320.

 

Of course the bribery scandal back in the early 70's didn't help the L1011 ... but it ultimately failed to be competitive because it relied on engines from Rolls-Royce that went into receivership (aka bankruptcy) so there was a long long long delay it getting engines that could make the aircraft financially competitive.  A delay that was too much to make up so Lockheed withdrew from the commercial market.

 

I have used PMDG's MD11 ... at the time I thought it was exceptional.  But for here and now I enjoy flying Captain Sim's L1011 in P3D v2.x.

 

Still an interesting article on the MD11 ... even if it's not the L1011. ;)

 

Cheers, Rob.

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If that's the case why did they release the MD11 ahead of the 737 in the first place so many years ago?

 

Because they still have the final say as to what they want to produce. The MD-11 was a favourite within the team, that much is certain. However, it was not a commercial succes. Not in the real world, not for PMDG. If you've been around these forums long enough, you should know this.

 

 

The results of the MD11/FS9 poor sale performance spear headed the reasoning of moving away from FS9 prematurely.

 

No, it didn't. The extra features FSX offered "in-house" made the change very reasonable. Just because a lot of people still stand by FS9 (even today), does not make it a better platform.

 

 

The MD11 years ago did very well with FSX sales.

 

How do you know this? Do you have some insight in PMDG's records that we don't?

Either you're making a claim you can't back up, or you're saying PMDG has been lying to us all along. They've said time and again that producing the MD-11 was a (commercial) mistake.

 

 

iFly is doing it right by releasing their produce for FS9/FSX/P3D as people are using all those sims.

 

I beg to differ. iFly may have their strategy, but that does not make PMDG's strategy any less valid.

 

 

The bottom line is listen to customers and you'll have success

 

That's exactly what PMDG does these days, and exactly why they have achieved the success they enjoy right now. It's also the reason why the MD-11 wasn't a succes for PMDG. They wanted to produce the MD-11, the customers were interested in something else.

 

 

To be honest, it truly isn't common sense to claim PMDG should revisit the MD-11. Common sense would dictate that there's a lesson to be learnt from the previous version of the MD-11 not being a succes. That lesson is to listen to your customers, as you have rightly said. However, those customers aren't necessarily waiting for a revamp of the MD-11, especially since it's as good as dead in a lot of parts of the real world.

They're waiting for something else, like a revamp of the 747.

They do listen, but they don't grant the wishes of a minority.

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Because they still have the final say as to what they want to produce. 

 

 

I guess we can agree to disagree.  First off no sales numbers are needed when PMDG themselves years ago stated the FSX version outsold the FS9 version.  Second making the current build of the MD11 functional in P3D is not too much to ask.  You may have a case with a total rebuild but no one is asking for that.

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To back up that specific statement, actual sales numbers are very much necessary. Again, how do you know, not assume, the FSX version outsold the FS9 version? You don't even know whether AVSIM is a representative part of their customer base, without seeing the full sales numbers.

 

 

 

 


Second making the current build of the MD11 functional in P3D is not too much to ask.  You may have a case with a total rebuild but no one is asking for that.

So you're on the development team? I'd leave that kind of comments to the developers who actually made the specific add-on.

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