I have to say after reading the replies to XBOX with FS that I feel most people just don't "GET IT". Call FS a "GAME" all you wish but the truth of the matter is we don't have successful addons to create more of a "GAME". They are purchased and created by most to increase learning of different aircraft etc... and realism and of course to be ENJOYABLE on top of it. If you think MS is going to put everything you need into a console the first time out and be able to "SIMULATE" with a game pad controller then frankly you're insulting my intelligence. You should refine yourself to titles such as crimson skies which is a very fun GAME. I have enjoyed flight simulation since I was 9 years old. As a matter of fact my first home computer was a Vic-20 when they first came out was purchased by my father so that I could program my own simulator which I did until I ran out of 2K memory. I can't help to sit here and shake my head that we are heading for people to just be suckered by things for face value. Hype, media attention, the neighbors new toy I guess encourage and drive all this. The argument about HD doesn't fly because if you have an HDTV you can hook your PC to it and have it now. If MS can't see to continue FS for the PC then I have to say that I feel like all the time for the last 30 years of advancement has been for nothing. In summation if you are REALLY TRULY interesed in aviation then you understand and "GET IT" why Bruce Artwick started this off. If you just wanna put down your keys at the end of the day and loosen your tie and drink a beer and laugh on the sofa then go influence another endeavor and don't kill Flight Sim by getting all gooey to hit a button and say you know how to fly.Carmine http://forums.avsim.net/images/wave.gif

i agree with you 100% even so i only read the first 5 posts in that XBox thread, didnt want to waste my time ...

>i agree with you 100% even so i only read the first 5 posts>in that XBox thread, didnt want to waste my time ...I saw the controller in the first pic, and stopped there. I have absolutely no interest in this type of setup. And if add-ons don't apply, I wouldn't bother anyway.L.Adamson ---- got to have those rudder pedals! :(

flight sims for the pc are still produced, MS is only one of them.

Your post makes it seem that moving FS to the XBox (something I predicted some months ago) is sort of like moving the Eiffel Tower from Paris to London. The FS9 franchise is a game for entertainment purposes only. I suspect that addon developers will adjust quickly. I don't see why you can't hook up rudder pedals and a yoke to your XBox. I mean, you can use a racing wheel with it, so why not other peripherals. For me, FS has always been about having fun and a bit of pixelated diversion. So, why not try it on another platform?Ricardo

You can't tell me that we're going to have the same sort of flexibility and control over the sim with it running an an XBOX instead of a PC. XBOX has no access to the OS, no file manager, no way of editing the game files (cfgs etc). As I said in the other thread, if they really do make FS an XBOX exclusive title, that will be the deathknell for the program as a real simulator.

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!I only have a computer to fly and play chess on. From what I've been reading, I can upgrade to Windows XP and port the new X box into it. Either that or spend $1500 on a system that MIGHT give acceptable performance at the load imposed by a flight sim set to max. It's a no-brainer to me, looks like Gate's gonna get more of my money... especially if I can use planes like Maria Noriega's Avanti just by having them on my computer ported to Xbox... Or even use FLY 2 utilising the graohics help...Best Regards, Donny:-wave

Look at the upside:Loading times will be instant.No more spending hours tweaking the sim.Weather, online play, and additional content can all be delivered via XBox Live!Save game anytime on a memory card.Ricardo

"Who Moved My Cheese?"You will find it interesting.Regards,BobShttp://s95171098.onlinehome.us/junk/aopa.jpgSeems the rage to talk about the "size and speed" of each others computer. Beat this if you can for solving novel/unique problem anywhere in the cosmos. ..Have K&E and know how to use it!

Do you reckon Hem ever got it?Owen

I don't understand how anyone can support an Xbox-only FS future. The only reason I still use it is because of the community that we have, creating both freeware and payware programs that take the "game" to another level. You can't simulate a DF727, a PMDG 737, an LDS767, or DF's A36 on an Xbox.

Xbox = kids lolLOL XBOX give me a break!!

Wow the other thread got way too long to comprehend.First I'm not surprised that there will be an XBox version. Flightsim is apparently one of the bestselling Microsoft-published games so it would be a waste to exclude a potential user base.I think many are underestimating the new XBox or consoles in general. It's not a Super Nintendo! Modern consoles are completely different animals. With proper HDTV, high-res gaming is possible and it seems it will be possible to add controllers to the new console - considering the CH Yoke is just a standard HID that doesn't need any special drivers, even that might work.It's a fact that both the XBox and PS2 were far more capabable gaming machines than the PC's of that time. When the XBox was released, Geforce3's were just barely avaiable and cost an arm and a leg. Most PC's were still on the Geforce2 and the XBox GPU is closer to the Geforce4 in terms of shader performance. How long did it take until PC's were considered capable enough to run Halo? A long time. LOOK at a modern XBOX game - remember, those run on a SINGLE 700 MHz CPU and a Geforce4-ish GPU - now imagine what they can do with three CPUs each 4.5 times faster and a GPU that is 6+ times faster...Now the PC has caught up but the new XBox will change that again - I mean how many of you are running THREE 3.2 GHz processors? And those are PowerPC processors! No inefficent-but-insanely-high-clocked Prescotts here - each of those cores is probably as fast as a 4.5 GHz P4. The GPU is probably closer the the R520 than the R4xx especially in terms of shader performance. Also with only one combination of hardware rather than thousands, games can be coded to more efficently utilize the hardware capabalities, unless they're to be ported to the PC.With XBox Live and a built-in harddrive, at least major publishers like Flight1 should be able to provide addons for purchase, though freeware developers and smaller payware publishers will probably not be able to afford this distribution and QA, making the PC version far more expandable.I'm sure there'll be a PC version of Flightsim. Like I said, Microsoft doesn't want to eliminate any potential customers. Out of the box, I think the XBox and PC versions will be identical. They will share most of the code, which is the whole point of the XBox. I would NOT expect the XBox version to even come close to utilizing the full GPU capabilities of the console. It will be DUMBED DOWN, just to MATCH the capabilities of PC's at the time. OTHER XBox 360 games that won't have a PC counterpart to share the code with will probably look darn near photoreal will the new FS will still be mostly a DX7 affair with a bunch of simple shader effects thrown in here and there.Thanks for reading my novel :-lol

Hey, there's no decent flightsim available for the Xbox -- I can't think of any better choice than MS to build it. I, too, started programming on the VIC20, and it is probably that which gives me my perspective on the whole thing -- the VIC20 was a games machine, but also a lot more, as it showed my what could be possible in the future -- which I'm learning to live in now.I can certainly see the advantages of a super console, as opposed to my PC which is basically a business machine (ala IBM) trying to be everything else. Plus I like the idea of developing scenery for one specific... specification... if you know what I mean.If you don't at least keep an eye on some new directions, you could end up missing out on some great stuff.-Robin CornVisit the Windowlight forum on Avsim... everything you need to know about New Zealand flightsim sceneryhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...forum=203&page=

Done ranting?Next time make use of some whitespace, makes it a lot easier to read.Now dig this: Microsoft does not create FS to keep the addon makers in business.Microsoft also does not make FS solely to keep the few thousand hardcore users happy.Microsft makes FS because it sells well to the masses who have no illusion that somehow they can now fly a real aircraft because PMDG (or whomever) say that their addon is so close to reality.If Microsoft decides that they can make more money doing other things they'll do other things. If those other things include making a flightsim for XBox and they need the manpower of the FS development team to do that, they'll use the team for that.Am I saying that that's happening? No. But I'm not naive enough to deny the possibility of it happening now or at some point in the future.For the average user not having pedals, yokes, Goflight controls, complete home cockpits, and whatnot is not an issue. They don't have that anyway.Your statement that everything that was done to improve FS over the last 30 years is wasted unless Microsoft continues to pour money into development is complete lunacy. They had a very good return on investment and made millions of people happy with nice new games every few years.It also kept a few thousand hardcore nutters out of mischieve who might otherwise have tried to fly under the Golden Gate in a real aircraft (for example) and probably caused several tens of thousands of people to take up a career as pilots who otherwise would never have done that.I wouldn't call that wasted effort.