You don't give up do you.... try taking off from KCRW Yager Field Charleston WVA and use RA... right at the end of the runway the hill that the airport is build on drops into the Kanawha Valley and your RA will almost instantly increase to over 1000 ft... this is why several of us have told you to ignore RA on departure.

 

Also, I have no idea where you get your reference material.  The FCTM included with PMDG B77X is licensed by Boeing.  True that the PMDG/Boeing FCOM has the same graphic on a different page, please read the text in the FCTM regarding takeoff procedures. No where in the text does it mention RA... only AGL.

 

Yield Vernon.

Also, I have no idea where you get your reference material.  The FCTM included with PMDG B77X is licensed by Boeing.  True that the PMDG/Boeing FCOM has the same graphic on a different page, please read the text in the FCTM regarding takeoff procedures. No where in the text does it mention RA... only AGL.

 

That text was from a new edition i got from a RW pilot i'm only stating what it says in that FCOM text. Above 400 feet radio altitude engage a roll mode.

 

About KCRW and not using RA, that'll be airport specific and procedures!

Are you a licensed pilot?

There's a trap of solely reference to RA only. Imagine there s a cliff shortly after the departure end of the runway. Or you are approaching from the sea into an airport where the terrain rises up as you descend. Under these two scenarios the RA will give you a false sense of climbing/ descending if solely reference to it, because it only shows your actual height right underneath he airplane, not with reference to the airport.

 

In the former case, if you look at your RA it will show increasing but you can still be able to do level flight while having the RA showing you that are climbing and vice verse when on the approach in the later case.

 

Therefore most people I know including myself scan all three parameters, RA, ALT and v/s. Because they all compliment each other to improve the situation awareness.

Therefore most people I know including myself scan all three parameters, RA, ALT and v/s. Because they all compliment each other to improve the situation awareness.

Finally.

 

I'm guessing the AF447 and probably the AirAsia crew would have been better off had they looked at instruments "they weren't supposed to be."

 

 

If my GPWS and RA are screaming but my Alt is happy, I'm gonna be concerned.

 

And I probably do scan the RA on departure for heading mode. It's all in the mix.

Looked at the books, radio altimeter is used by the Digital Flight Control System on takeoff (and other stages of flight). Examples:

- Both F/D MAster lights illuminate when TOGA is pushed. After 400' RA, the F/D MAster light extinguishes for the F/D switch that was switched on last (usually pnf/pm side).

- LNAV engages at 50' RA.

 

Your FCTM is no longer current, but is still correct, Vernon.

 

Airmanship should prevail, as discussed by Matt et al.

 

Brian Nellis.

 

 

Therefore most people I know including myself scan all three parameters, RA, ALT and v/s. Because they all compliment each other to improve the situation awareness.

I'm guessing the AF447 and probably the AirAsia crew would have been better off had they looked at instruments "they weren't supposed to be."

 

Agreed, but as usual, I think he's getting lost in the minutia again here and losing the bigger picture. There's no formulaic, cut and dry answer. The prevailing method should be your MSL, as that's what most all altitudes on the charts are referenced to (unless the chart specifically says AGL) because, as mentioned, terrain can make the RA useless.

 

Of course, as mentioned, true SA means using all sources available (but relevant) to operate most appropriately. The altitude judgment could obviously be supplemented by the sight picture out the window provided that was an option.

 

Still, for someone who seems to be permanently lost in the details, and questioning the common wisdom with "well some random pilot said," I think it's most appropriate to say that the primary method is barometric altitude for departure. Later on, when he's fine-tuning his flying and trying to be a better aviator instead of a formulaic one (not to be judgy - I used to be that way, too), that's when he can concentrate on using additional sources for SA.

 

Why? In your first flying lessons, you're taught to fly a traffic pattern. Are you using a radio altimeter to maintain the standard 1000' AGL? Nope. You use the standard baro altimeter and a little math. Sure, if you have it, use it, but for someone who's learning, it's best to trim back unnecessary sources of information until the core concept is understood.

 

At the moment, trying to concentrate on all that is like drinking from a firehose.

 

 

Agreed, but as usual, I think he's getting lost in the minutia again here and losing the bigger picture. There's no formulaic, cut and dry answer.

 

Bingo.  Sometimes you actually have to be a pilot and interpret all the information presented to you.

Bingo. Sometimes you actually have to be a pilot and interpret all the information presented to you.

If he was my student, we'd be following the syllabus, which would have more measured info. Now, where did I leave his progress chart?

 

 

400 feet radio alt is stated in my FCOM

 

Are they with the ones with the words "Boeing Proprietory. Copyright ©  Boeing " on them?

Yeh thats right?

 

 

Now, where did I leave his progress chart?

 

With the remedial training forms?