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S.Keller

De-icing Procedure

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Hello Pilots,

 

since we have the visual opportunity to get our aircraft decided before flight, is there an official procedure? in what stage can we deice the aircraft?

 

What about packs and other flight systems?

 

Any story about it?

 

Cheers


Sebastian Keller

 

PMDG NGX - If you can´t read it, you can´t fly it.

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Each airline has different deicing procedures. The airline I work for requires deicing if there is any contamination, frost,snow,ice, on the control surfaces prior to take off. The final say is up to the crew. I've decided more than one airplane that had virtually nothing on it.


NAX669.png

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http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_08/deice_textonly.html

 

The boeing Aero magazines contain literature of a technical nature of interest to industry professionals and others. Luckily for you, they are freely available to you.

 

The article might be dated, but the info is still current. The clean aircraft concept, for example, is still a concept in use.

 

Brian Nellis.


Brian Nellis

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Each airline has different deicing procedures. The airline I work for requires deicing if there is any contamination, frost,snow,ice, on the control surfaces prior to take off. The final say is up to the crew. I've decided more than one airplane that had virtually nothing on it.

you are right. there is different procedures for different airlines. GSX doesnt really have a good feeling with the DE-ICEING option. 


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Alex Kulak

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Also depends on aircraft manufacturer, some aircraft have specific flows to protect items such as vortex generators. In basic its packs off, back bone, wings and then tail. leading edges, wings, horizontal stab, flight controls and backbone should be clear of ice. We perform a tactile check by running your hands along the leading edge and wings if able. The weight is not the big factor, its the camber and disruption of air over the wing. Here are some guides for ya.

 

  https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/media/FAA_2014-15_HoldoverTables.pdf

 

https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/deicing/media/standardized_international_ground_deice_program.pdf

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Yeah, even frost is a potential bad problem.


Dan Downs KCRP

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What about packs and other flight systems?

 

Typically engine bleeds and APU bleed off during deicing.  Let the engines or APU run for at least one minute after deicing is complete before turning the bleeds back on.  Engines running or not depends on the local procedures.  If we are off the gate we usually deice with engines running if the airport allows it.

 

Flaps up for deicing.  Flaps to takeoff setting prior to application of anti-icing fluid.

 

Each operator has it's own specific guidance so procedures will vary.


Joe Diamond

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Flaps up for deicing.  Flaps to takeoff setting prior to application of anti-icing fluid.

 

So the aircraft gets two lots of anti ice application?


Vernon Howells

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So the aircraft gets two lots of anti ice application?

 

 

I would  imagine   the  flaps  are set  for  take  off  than  the  anti  ice  is  applied


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Peter kelberg

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Under our current procedures the flaps can be anywhere for de-icing.  Often they will have been left at 15 by the previous crew if they encountered icing on the approach.  Once de-icing is complete the flaps are brought up for the anti-icing step.  Takeoff flap setting is then delayed as long as possible prior to takeoff.  Looking at my previous post, that was incorrect.  That was the old procedure.


Joe Diamond

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So if you arrive at the airport and taxi to the stand with F15, do you shut the engines down even with the flaps out?

 

So deicing and anticing are applied together but in steps?


Vernon Howells

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So deicing and anticing are applied together but in steps?

 

Deicing fluid (type 1) is applied first. It is used to take off any contamination from the wings, and tail. If there is snow on the fuselage that will be removed also. If there is visible precipitation, snow, ice, even rain an anti icing application is made (type 4). That is applied to wings, tail, and all control surfaces. We never applied type 4 to the fuselage, although I have seen it done. Type 4 was never applied without type one being used first. I don't ever remember deicing an aircraft with its' flaps extended. The crew usually put the flaps in take off position before departing the deicing pad.


NAX669.png

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So if you arrive at the airport and taxi to the stand with F15, do you shut the engines down even with the flaps out?

 

Yes.  If icing conditions are encountered on the approach with the flaps extended or if the landing runway was contaminated the flaps are retracted to 15 and left there on shutdown so the flap wells can be inspected to ensure they are free of contamination prior to the flaps being retracted fully.


Joe Diamond

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This is a good read guys

 

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2010_q4/2/#basics

 

Deicing fluid (type 1) is applied first. It is used to take off any contamination from the wings, and tail. If there is snow on the fuselage that will be removed also. If there is visible precipitation, snow, ice, even rain an anti icing application is made (type 4). That is applied to wings, tail, and all control surfaces. We never applied type 4 to the fuselage, although I have seen it done. Type 4 was never applied without type one being used first. I don't ever remember deicing an aircraft with its' flaps extended. The crew usually put the flaps in take off position before departing the deicing pad.

 

I understand the process better now. So Type 1 - 4 are deicers then?

Yes.  If icing conditions are encountered on the approach with the flaps extended or if the landing runway was contaminated the flaps are retracted to 15 and left there on shutdown so the flap wells can be inspected to ensure they are free of contamination prior to the flaps being retracted fully.

 

 

Thanks joe. Do you do any run ups to shed off the icing on the fan blades except on the runway before toga? So throttles to 70% N1 for 30 sec


Vernon Howells

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