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wanabflyer

Weird taxi instructions

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Without fail, if i get clearance to depart via RWY 08R at CYVR, I receive a really crazy taxi root from ATC. I am instructed to proceed to RWY 08R using D, D5 then hold short at RWY 26L. I am then told to cross 26L and proceed via C, F, A, H and hold short again at 26L. I am then told to cross 26L again and proceed via L2, L to 08R (which means i have to travel west up 26L) instead of crossing 26L directly by remaining on H and how do i turn with a B777, from taxiway L2 onto L? Even the taxiway markings tell me i shouldn't be trying it. 

 

Anyone else come across this kind of situation? 

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Anyone else come across this kind of situation?

Same here, I got CYVR by FSDT. I couldn't figure out what causes these weird instructions, but it does happen in some airports (the first that comes to my mind is KDFW, also by FSDT). I read somewhere it has to do with the runway configuration of an airport, particularly those with parallel runways, however I fly hundreds of them and it only happens in two or three.

I usually disable Voxatc,follow airport charts and re-enable it once airborne. Not very realistic, though.

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Same here, I got CYVR by FSDT. I couldn't figure out what causes these weird instructions, but it does happen in some airports (the first that comes to my mind is KDFW, also by FSDT). I read somewhere it has to do with the runway configuration of an airport, particularly those with parallel runways, however I fly hundreds of them and it only happens in two or three.

I usually disable Voxatc,follow airport charts and re-enable it once airborne. Not very realistic, though.

Now that you mention it, I am also using FSDT cyvr and have another anomally so to speak. On this "mystery tour", at the first RWY 26L crossing, the AI that are also on the same taxi route, cut the corner off and go across the grass and the same after the second hold at 26L, yet the VOX progressive taxi markings look correct.

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I wonder if it might have to do with the AFCAD for these particular airports?

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Now that you mention it, I am also using FSDT cyvr and have another anomally so to speak. On this "mystery tour", at the first RWY 26L crossing, the AI that are also on the same taxi route, cut the corner off and go across the grass and the same after the second hold at 26L, yet the VOX progressive taxi markings look correct.

I checked and actually got AI traffic behaving the same way.

 

Must be the afcad for sure, but I'm not familiar with afcad editing and don't know what I should be looking for in order to find the problem.

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I too am not knowledgeable enough in this area and i am very hesitant about approaching the FSDT dev, because i find him very quick to take inquiries of this nature as critique, spending most of his time defending his product rather than coming up with a few helpful suggestions.

 

I have gone as far as scanning my computer for any duplicate .bgl files and removed all conflicting ones from MTX.  

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I too am not knowledgeable enough in this area and i am very hesitant about approaching the FSDT dev, because i find him very quick to take inquiries of this nature as critique, spending most of his time defending his product rather than coming up with a few helpful suggestions.

 

Glad to know it's not just me who had this impression about him!

 

Maybe Tegwyn could be of more help, but I'm reluctant to contact him because this is a very limited issue and I've already bothered him with tons of requests in the past (he's very helpful by the way).

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I suspect there are a few taxiway link connections missing so the AI cannot use the most direct route and has found a long circuitous rote instead that is all joined together.

 

Rog

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 Does the AI follow these same odd routes? I use the FSDT CYVR and have never seen this kind of activity, sounds like it's VOXATC more than the airport file.

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If you are getting strange taxi routes I guarantee it is because of something in the AFCAD.  Airport authors sometimes use unorthodox taxi routing when building an AFCAD to force certain types of taxi situations to 'work'.  It usually works great for AI but wrecks havoc on programs like VoxATC that needs the AFCAD to be 'clean' to get you get taxi instructions.   I but you if you load your airports into ADE 1.65 and do a Airport Check you will get a bunch of Taxi errors.  :)   These are MEANT to be that way though so i wouldn't screw with it..

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These are MEANT to be that way though so i wouldn't screw with it..

Hi Brian, so are you saying that this is the way it is and it can't be fixed?

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Hi Brian, so are you saying that this is the way it is and it can't be fixed?

 

Many payware airports use weird taxi points in order to get the highest safe flow rate of AI traffic.   VoxATC reads the taxi paths and uses those when it assigns taxing to and from the runways for human players.   To the AI they make sense but to human players it can give some crazy instructions.   That is my understanding of it.    I get weird taxi results at FlyTampa's KMDW Midway sometimes because of this.   You really are kind stuck with it unless you want to risk messing up your AI travel paths at your payware airport with AFCAD edits.

 

My real problem with VoxATC is being handed off like a ping pong ball to ARTCC's while enroute.  @_@

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Jumping in and also confirming that this sounds like a problem with the AFCAD. Had this trouble with a couple of airports myself (some ORBX airports to be more precise). I jumped in and fixed them by using ADEX (Airport Design Editor) and basically started to re-do the whole taxiway paths and nodes, a time consuming task but it paid off in the end.

 

You are not the first person i hear that has problems with 3rd party airports when it comes down to AI and ATC programs.

 

I don't know if i am asking too much but, try without the addon airport. See if you get the same results !?

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Using the default ATC, and the default FSDT CYVR afcad neither the user or AI gets the weird routings to 08R. Keep in mind as well is all of the taxiways using the FSDT afcad are listed as Apron Paths, not taxiways.

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I get a similar thing with Voxatc and UK2000. If you are departing from Rnwy 09R, apart from T4 it does not matter which gate at terminals1-5 you push back from, the taxi instruction will be to taxi to and hold short of 09 at a crossing point , cross the Rnwy 09 then taxi to the South side taxiway to 09R. I don't think it's an AFCAD thing as the AI traffic does not use the same route.

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I get a similar thing with Voxatc and UK2000. If you are departing from Rnwy 09R, apart from T4 it does not matter which gate at terminals1-5 you push back from, the taxi instruction will be to taxi to and hold short of 09 at a crossing point , cross the Rnwy 09 then taxi to the South side taxiway to 09R. I don't think it's an AFCAD thing as the AI traffic does not use the same route.

Not quite the same problem as mine, i.e. AI is using the same route in my case, so I suspect an AFCAD problem.

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I've tried completely uninstalling and a fresh download and reinstall; haven't tried it yet as I've just had an op on my ankle and stairs are an issue. I've dropped an email to Tegwyn at his info@ address hopefully he will respond but I think it's the 2nd time I've asked; I guess he has a lot on.

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AI using the default ATC and afcad from FSDT doesn't do all these weird taxi routes.

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So are you saying that it is possibly VoxATC and not the FSDT afcad?

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 The only big anomaly I find with default ATC using the stock FSDT afcad is that when parked on the south terminal side and the 08's are active. Ground has traffic taxi A, H and across 08R to L to depart as it want's traffic to use the full length. I don't think it's the FSDT airport file.

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Can't see any reason why ATC would have me crossing 08R at all, L runs straight from the terminal to the end of 08R and is accessible from every part of the terminal area.

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Can't see any reason why ATC would have me crossing 08R at all, L runs straight from the terminal to the end of 08R and is accessible from every part of the terminal area.

 

 Exactly, and using the afcad that comes with FSDT Vancouver along with the default ATC that's the route you get to 08R from the Main/International  Terminal area.

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this is not just limited to Orbx or FSDT; i have the same issue with UK2000 Heathrow Extreme. i am not expert enough to start playing with the airport AFCADS / cfg's etc. i have emailed Tegwyn 3 times over this without any response

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Make sure you are running your "Runway Number Update" along with "VoxATC Indexer" if you update your Navigraph data every month. That may make a difference.

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