No 64-bit P3D coming according to Orbxs' John Venema

[NATK50 8]

Have you got a link to this Aersoft announcement? I've seen a couple of people mention that they're working on some external tech but I haven't found anything about it. It's something to do with Airports right? I'm having a hard time figuring out how they could improve VAS externally 

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/465117-this-could-be-ground-breaking-news-for-p3dfsx/

[denali 74]

 

 

the current version of P3D is not as solid as FSX with DX10 and that is a fact it is OK for puddle jumpers but the big stuff doesnt work well and as hard as LM might be working to improve memory usage and VAS you cant make a silk purse out off a sows ear.

 This is complete nonsense.  P3D is very stable, and FSX doesn't try to do half the things that P3D is doing.  It's been 8 years now, where have you been?  Do you have P3D?  

 

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how they could improve VAS externally

 It's simple.  Programs CAN talk to each other, share data, almost at the same speed as if the data was moved internally.  So create another executable with it's own 32bit space, build your world there, and transfer parts of that world to a hook within p3d that shares with that executable.  There are several interfaces available today.

[Ebs 114]

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/465117-this-could-be-ground-breaking-news-for-p3dfsx/

 

Thanks very much for the link, I've read through the thread and I'm still not convinced that this is the holy grail. I'll reserve final judgement until the first reviews come in though. Progress is always good!

 

 

 It's simple.  Programs CAN talk to each other, share data, almost at the same speed as if the data was moved internally.  So create another executable with it's own 32bit space, build your world there, and transfer parts of that world to a hook within p3d that shares with that executable.  There are several interfaces available today.

 

Thanks denali, For all these years, I didn't realise it was as simple as that! I'll refer to your post the next time I'm having trouble with allocating resources at work.

 

..Full time software developer by the way

[NATK50 8]

Thanks very much for the link, I've read through the thread and I'm still not convinced that this is the holy grail. I'll reserve final judgement until the first reviews come in though. Progress is always good!

 

 

 

Thanks denali, For all these years, I didn't realise it was as simple as that! I'll refer to your post the next time I'm having trouble with allocating resources at work.

 

..Full time software developer by the way

 

Yeah Aerosoft Split will be release soon and this will have that feature.

 

Mostly the Idea of like how to implement this or realize that is mostly simple but the difficullty is to implement your idea.

[Kattz 132]

<ECM MODE to ACTIVE>

 

You can read some of my other posts and see that I've said the same thing consistently since I've came here:  WHAT are you doing to get OOM's?  I don't care, P3D or FSX.  Never have had one.  EVER.  PMDG products or Majestic, full-on ORBX mesh, LC, Vector, REX, add-on airports, air traffic at 25-50%, cars and ships at 5%, running TrackIR, OPUS, FSUIPC, ASN, and a USB FMC and MCP/EFIS.  Aivlasoft EFB running.  ATC running.  And I can leave the sim and play another game at the same time AND never go over 3.8Gb on my VAS.

 

This discussion keeps going back to VAS and OOM's.  Either I'm extremely lucky, or I'm housekeeping my background processes and moving data through the CPU fast enough to avoid these issues.

 

Not ranting, trolling, or flaming, I have just absolutely never understood the OOM thing.  Really.  Never seen it.  Not once.

 

We now return you to your scheduled broadcast.

 

<ECM MODE to SILENT>

[WotanUK 289]

 

 

I have just absolutely never understood the OOM thing.  Really.  Never seen it.  Not once.

 

It very much depends on what you are running along with the sim.  I can get them pretty much after 1hr or so.  Try the PMDG 777, from UK2000 v3 EGLL, using ORBX Global, Vector and England scenery and finish with a touch of MyTraffic on around 30%.  It used to be in FSX they were avoidable (somewhat) by reducing LOD (mine was 3.5), i understand in P3D that setting doesn't have the same impact.

 

...also thank you to Pete for his explanation of the 64-bit scenery stuff, i have wondered about that for a little while, now it makes sense. 

[mgh 89]

Someone has posted this thread on the Prepar3D forums. No response yet from Lockheed Martin, but it's still the weekend.

[Kattz 132]

It very much depends on what you are running along with the sim.  I can get them pretty much after 1hr or so.  Try the PMDG 777, from UK2000 v3 EGLL, using ORBX Global, Vector and England scenery and finish with a touch of MyTraffic on around 30%.  It used to be in FSX they were avoidable (somewhat) by reducing LOD (mine was 3.5), i understand in P3D that setting doesn't have the same impact. 

 

Ian, I've ran that identical airport addon and landed at FlyTampa's Dubai Rebooted and no issues.  I admit I was running vanilla ORBX and not the England scenery.  The biggest issue where my VAS has squeaked into the 3.85-3.9 range is FSDT JFK with the traffic at 50%.  You're using the same traffic I am.

[Christopher Low 5,377]

 

Not ranting, trolling, or flaming, I have just absolutely never understood the OOM thing.  Really.  Never seen it.  Not once.

 

I get the distinct feeling that you could set up two identical PCs, with exactly the same flight simulator and addons installed, and they would experience different outcomes with respect to OOMs. This is what happens when you code a flight simulator with voodoo magic subroutines.

[DarkstarF16 72]

As a note, I turn off my England scenery and use vanilla ORBX at EGLL (UK2000 x3) if using the PMDG 777 and ORBYX EU, ASN and GSX as I can OOM at the gate by simply looking outside. I'm using WOAI at 30% so yes, their are other variables involved and ive not looked at how much each item contributes. Turning off ORBX EU is simple so it probably isn't the main contributor, for that reason I'm not about to point fingers.

[n4gix 4,949]

And I can leave the sim and play another game at the same time AND never go over 3.8Gb on my VAS.

Of course there's no increase in the VAS used by FSX or P3D...

 

Every program running on any 64bit Windows computer has its own ~4GiB VAS table!

 

I can run FSX/A or P3Dv2.5, Photoshop CS2 and Max2012 all at the same time. Neither CS2 nor Max2012 will have any affect on the sim's VAS usage.

 

What affect both programs have however has more to do with having to page out portions of the sim's physical memory usage to disk whenever giving CS2 or Max2012 the focus. Even then though the two programs that begin to suffer the most are CS2 and Max2012...

 

...they begin to get really s l o w , as if I had used tar instead of 20W/30 motor oil!

[Guest]

Their are many ways to convert a 32 bit product to a 64bit product. But the OOM issues are not due to structure sizes alone, it's their size AND number of allocations. The data types don't need to be changed, just compiling to x64 target will resolve the quantity of allocation issue.

 

It's extremely unlikely any single allocation is going exceed 4GB, nor the quad-tree capping out ... In fact I'm almost certain the quad-tree allocation isn't the issue.

 

The challenges I see for LM:

1. DX11 references

2. Any 3rd party development tools (Xceed, SlimDX, etc.) used will need to have 64bit versions so they can be linked in

 

3rd party will have their own challenges and they'll need to decide if that's a direction they want to go. Their will be 32bit AND 64bit products.

 

Not trivializing the process, but I see no reason to change any of the data structures outlined here. LM could to increase precision, but I see no need to do that to solve basic OOM issue?

 

Cheers, Rob

[EngineRoom 205]

I can't help but read this thread with something of a wry smile.

 

For many months now I've been hearing from the P3D proponents that it is the future, so much better than FSX and X-Plane, in fact if we believe the more enthusiastic posts P3D is some kind of flight sim panacea.

 

If that's the case, surely it's irrelevant whether or not P3D ever goes 64bit - I mean it's already such a huge revolutionary, massive leap over FSX, right?

 

Unless of course that is, P3D isn't really that much of a giant leap over FSX, is more evolutionary in nature and has many of the same old limitations and hangovers that FSX had, and the real headline improvement - 64bit - is yet to come.

 

Anyway, I agree with the point several have made already - if/when 64bit does come we'll soon see the bottleneck shift to another part of the platform, be it CPU or GPU and we'll all be bemoaning the poor performance and waiting for the Next Big Thing

[AviatorMoser 353]

I can't help but read this thread with something of a wry smile.

 

For many months now I've been hearing from the P3D proponents that it is the future, so much better than FSX and X-Plane, in fact if we believe the more enthusiastic posts P3D is some kind of flight sim panacea.

 

If that's the case, surely it's irrelevant whether or not P3D ever goes 64bit - I mean it's already such a huge revolutionary, massive leap over FSX, right?

 

Unless of course that is, P3D isn't really that much of a giant leap over FSX, is more evolutionary in nature and has many of the same old limitations and hangovers that FSX had, and the real headline improvement - 64bit - is yet to come.

 

Anyway, I agree with the point several have made already - if/when 64bit does come we'll soon see the bottleneck shift to another part of the platform, be it CPU or GPU and we'll all be bemoaning the poor performance and waiting for the Next Big Thing

 

Exactly. It's just evolving a little bit by bit over a span of years. I'm still waiting to be amazed, but the fancier lighting and fog isn't enough to woo me while it still suffers from the same issues as FSX. I watched Matt Davies OOM in P3D 2.5 over the empty North Atlantic yesterday during the Cross The Pond event. It's totally ridiculous. And if it is truly going to go 64-bit and break compatibility with everything, then I have zero interest in investing any sort of money into 32-bit P3D.

[denali 74]

..Full time software developer by the way

 20+ years professionally here too.  Architecture mostly now, not much coding.  So yes, lots of people groan when I say it's simple.  But it would be my job to prove it to you then, help you find the "resources".  There are lots to allocate for P3D 32 ... in another executable s space.

 

 

Yeah Aerosoft Split will be release soon and this will have that feature.

 I suggested this possibility a long time ago.

ANYTHING is possible with enough programming/programmer resources.  I never said they would be easy, just simple, there is a difference.  But some scoffed as I kept saying we don't need 64bit to get better performance, that it would be a miracle to get framerates/smoothness we have now.  Others may have scoffed when I claimed that there was still much to be done to get all we can out of a current CPU, and lo and behold DX12 makes claims of more miracles.  Now someone is utilizing another 3.5GB space to hold airport renderings for P3D to use.  Gee, maybe I might not be so crazy?

 

 

...also thank you to Pete for his explanation of the 64-bit scenery stuff, i have wondered about that for a little while, now it makes sense. 

 I wish I could recruit Pete to make a 32/64 interpreter.  He could probably get through it faster than anyone else and clean up with that act.