Brunner CLS Economy Yoke

[mikealpha]

Marshall,

 

Yes, works for all of them.

 

Mike

[HamSammich]

Mike,

 

That really cinches it. Just waiting for my tax refund. Thanks so much for your patience. If you've got any Dash questions I can help with, I'd be only too glad.

 

Best,

 

Marshall

[MartinCooper]

Hi there,

 

Newbie to the forum.

 

Could someone please explain how the brunner cls economy yoke works differently to other/ordinary consumer ffb sticks/yokes please. I've seen videos of it in action provided by brunner here:

 

 

and compared/reviewed against the iris yoke here:

 

 

I am quite amazed by how it responds and behaves to user inputs and when left alone it is very stable (e.g. does not induce a perpetual oscillation if it experiences a momentary perturbation from a constant/stable position).

 

Am i correct to assume it uses servo motors in actual servo mode of operation (i.e. position control) and torque sensors?

 

Is the realistic behaviour down to both the hardware employed in the yoke as much as the software provided by brunner? In other words, if one does not use the accompanying software but instead just uses it in a plug-and-play fashion (if that's even possible), does it then behave the same as regular ffb sticks/yokes (kind of like the iris)?

 

Lastly, is this yoke compatible with the same control-loading behaviour as seen in the previous viodes in any and all flight sims or in only a select few (e.g. fsx and x-plane)?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

[mikealpha]

Hi Martin,

 

yes, they are using AC servos. The manual is available for download on their site, you'll find more technical details there.

 

Plug and Play. Yes, almost. But you have to use the accompanying software at least for three button clicks :

 

CONNECT - Connects the Yoke to the Software

INIT - around 20 seconds where the Yoke goes through its entire range on both axes.

Then start the Sim : FSX, P3D or XPlane in my case and ...

CONNECT - Connects the Yoke to the Sim.

That's it. Now you can go flying, using the default Force Feedback settings, or any custom settings you have created previously.

 

I don't have other sims than P3D and XPlane, no idea if it's also compatible to other sims.

 

Mike

[MartinCooper]

Thanks Mike, very interesting. So it simply uses the default ffb output from flight sims, coupled with it's software to add some additional canned/artificial force effects and it can produce the results as shown in the videos?

 

I'm trying to understand how they are achieving all this from an engineering perspective. E.g. if they are using servo motors, are they using them in position control mode or torque control mode? Do they use any torque sensors inside the gear?

 

I have been unsuccessful in finding answers to these sorts of questions in their manual but it was a very good suggestion.

[Dondy]

Thanks for all the explanation Mike!

Just one small additional question regarding trimming.

 

Am I assuming right that when in SW mode the Brunner Yoke will be linked to P3D in such a way that when I trim the aircraft inside P3D with the mouse (klicking on the trim wheel) or when trimming with a Saitek Trim Wheel, the Yoke will also be linked to this and moves accordingly?

[S70IP]

Hi everyone,

 

I received the CLS Economy Yoke at the beginning of this week. Installation was easy. The tricky bit is working out the best setup.

I use it 99% of the time for the PMDG 737 NGX. I am a 737NG pilot and therefor have a pretty good idea how the control loading and trim effects feel. Trying to replicate them with this device has been problematic.

After a few frustrating days I have finally developed a system to experiment with all the settings. I'm starting with software mode and then later trying hardware mode. Changing one parameter at a time....

Question for anyone who has this unit, the CLS2SIM software says it compatible with PMDG 737 NGX. Why is it compatible,? It works with all aircraft.... Is the default profile setup for the 737?

[captainofflight]

Hi everyone,

 

I received the CLS Economy Yoke at the beginning of this week. Installation was easy. The tricky bit is working out the best setup.

I use it 99% of the time for the PMDG 737 NGX. I am a 737NG pilot and therefor have a pretty good idea how the control loading and trim effects feel. Trying to replicate them with this device has been problematic.

After a few frustrating days I have finally developed a system to experiment with all the settings. I'm starting with software mode and then later trying hardware mode. Changing one parameter at a time....

Question for anyone who has this unit, the CLS2SIM software says it compatible with PMDG 737 NGX. Why is it compatible,? It works with all aircraft.... Is the default profile setup for the 737?

 

 

I think Brunner just want to let the people know that you can use it with PMDG products in order to avoid a lot request like:

" Is that yoke comaptible with PMDG?"

 

I bought the yoke some months ago.......It takes a lot of time and afford to find the sweetspot....actually some times a think I still haven`t found it

 

So you are a real world pilot?!....would be nice to know which trim and force settings are the most "realistic" ones compared to a real 737 in your opinion?

[mikealpha]

The PMDG 737 uses a custom Autopilot. If it would not be compatible, you would not notice any Yoke movement during AP operation.

 

Mike

[S70IP]

The PMDG 737 uses a custom Autopilot. If it would not be compatible, you would not notice any Yoke movement during AP operation.

 

Hi guys,

 

Ok that makes sense thank you. Strange thing is I only get yoke movement when CMD A is engaged not CMD B. In the real world I'm a FO and therefore fly from the right seat in the aircraft and in the sim. I set the yoke up as "copilot" and it still doesn't move with CMD B. I have a GoFlight MCP and use it to engage the autopilot, then FSUIPC to map the buttons with Virtual joystick on the CLS E to disengage the AP using the CLS E yoke. No big deal just strange that CMD B doesn't engage the joystick (I can't engage or disengage through mapping in CLS2SIM not sure why which is why I use FSUIPC....)

 

So you are a real world pilot?!....would be nice to know which trim and force settings are the most "realistic" ones compared to a real 737 in your opinion?

 

Absolutely. I'll have a play with it and let you know. I'm sure I can put up some screen shots and let you know of my settings. My computer skills are stretched just doing this but I'm sure Google will show me how...

 

At this stage the HWS Trim is the most realistic feel for me. My testing scenario uses FSI Panel and then change flap settings. For example going from FLAP 15 to FLAP 40 (Through FLAP 25 if it's turbulent or really heavy) creates a lot of trim in the real aircraft (about 2-3 full nose down rotations of the trim wheel). I put my self on a 14 mile final flap and gear up then start configuring to full flap while maintaining (or trying to....) the glide slope and then experimenting.

 

I thought initially the "remote" function of CLS2SIM could be mapped to FSUIPC so that making a HWS Trim change would also change the aircraft trim as in software mode but I don't think this is possible. I was going to ask Pete Dawson but for some reason I can't get a login to the forum over there to ask him.... Confirmation email doesn't come through to join the forum.... Anyway I'm pretty sure it's just for hardware as you have both stated.

 

I engage the hydraulics in CLS2SIM and have set the force settings to about 400 in no profile mode but not sure if that works. The controls are quite light in the real aircraft when in trim. The force really builds up with configuration changes (on takeoff or approach). Practicing engine failures and go arounds is another area to test as there are big changes there too.

 

I have to work over the next few days but I'll report back on the results as I go. Thanks for the posts guys.

One more thing that tip yo change the trim in aircraft config to 0.1 is just for MFSX not P3D. One trim change caused the aircraft to tip up on the tail and "crash"!! I ditched MSFX when NGX came out for P3D.

 

I also fly the Carenado TBM 850. I haven't tried the CLS E with it yet but will today.

[S70IP]

Ok thank you for your reply.

The underlining was not intentional, not sure what I did there. Apologies.

[ark]

Ok thank you for your reply.

The underlining was not intentional, not sure what I did there. Apologies.

I think this was meant for the FSUIPC forum.

Al

[wazooda]

Does anyone have a well tuned profile for the A2A C172?  Any repositories for Brunner profiles?

 

I can't seem to come up with a combination that feels right.

[Nico1506]

I bought this yoke last week. It was on stock, and shipping from Switzerland to Germany by TNT took four days (shipping was over the weekend). Tuesday it arrived at my place, professionally packaged in a robust parcel.

 

It cost me in total about 2350 € (yoke plus transportation, PayPal and customs duty). This is more or less the same price level, which I would have paid for an IRIS yoke (if it would have gone into production, and if I would have decided for it).

 

The yoke in reality is looking great, much more better than in the picture on Brunner's website. The yoke handle itself is out of black high quality plastic, has a smal LCD screen (among others with a  stop watch) and has additionally ten programmable buttons and rocker switches. The yoke rod is out of black painted metal and has a long travel of around 20 cm. The casing of the yoke is out of silvery metal and is looking very nobel. So it is not looking like Econmy, but looking as Business or First.

 

Installation of the yoke and of its software has caused some problems to me. But I got very friendly support by Stefan Brunner, very prompt and even at 22:00 hours in the evening (again thank you very much!). So I was able to finish installation within a reasonable period. And I have to admit: If I would have had more patience to read the help files prior to installation, I could have done installation  by my own and without  support.

 

I now will start my first flights with the new yoke, and I will report back. My first impression: The handling of the yoke is very much different from my previous one (a PFC Beech yoke).

 

Arndt

Hey hast du den yoke auch für 1890 + 120 € Versand gekauft bei Brunner? Weil du 2350 € inkl Steuern usw schreibst, ich komme nämlich auf insgesamt 2439,73 € was schon heftig ist oO Oder hab ich etwas zu viel gerechnet? Muss ich nur auf die 1890 € die Einfuhrumsatzsteuer 19 % rechnen + 120€ Versand (Versand muss doch auch versteuert werden oder ist das darin schon enthalten bei TNT)?

[Arndt777]

Wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, fiel Mehrwertsteuer nur für den Artikel an, nicht aber für den Versand!