Yes, publishers have to take responsibility, and act and act quickly when they discover something like this. I can see how this could slip through the cracks, but once it has been brought to their attention they have to do something about it. I'll be watching this very closely and my buying decisions will most surely be based on the outcome. billg

>I believe some old articles are actual again:>>http://www.avsim.com/pages/0901/carenado_s...ado_092701.html>>And those who believe the piracy can't be traced, better read>this:>>http://www.avsim.com/pages/0901/carenado_s...llegations.htmlWell, crap. I was never aware of this - not involved much on the hobby at that time. What ever came of this?

Other developers that are publishing through either DSB or SimMarket should also put some heat on to get this resolved. Remember, when the public says "I won't buy another product from SimMarket or DSB until this is resolved" that means your products too. Public not buying or developers pulling their titles from a developer sends a message pretty quick. I won't buy from either until the issue is resolved.Dave

Well said, Clay.I don't know Rob, I don't own this or any other Harrier sim, nor have I used Rob's gauge. But I am familiar with Rob's contributions to the community, so like you, I also have a "gut feeling". Since I purchase frequently from SimMarket, I'll be following this issue with interest.Ken

Hey Rob, I have not seen the two files but I believe you in how you explain it. I remember when you helped me out with some XML issues on a past project and remember your distinct style of formating. For this to happen to such a great contributor like yourself is indeed a sad day for the hobby!KevinLIC

In the original post there is no mention about any contact with Simmarket about the issue.Jos

Hi Jose,Well, I did of course write to Simmarket.But had NO REPLY yet (after 3 days).See attached picture of my report (for obvious reasons I editted out most of the Ticket Id). Someone might get the idea of editting it :-(To make it a little more "mysterious":In this tollticket I refer to a "Max Monroe" , not "David Brice".See the signature on this page.http://www.dsbdesign.com/harrier.htmUnlike the announcement on the News page (http://www.dsbdesign.com)done by David Brice.Which initially was my first "confusion": who to communicate with at DSB Design ??There is probably a lot more to reveal on this "mystery".But as said, I will state only facts. You may draw conclusions :-)Cheers, Rob

Assuming that Rob's original post is correct:>Every attempt I made with DSB Design to clear this "issue",>failed because DSB Design (i.c. it's "representitive" David>Brice) claims that:>- "DSB Design" has a confidentiality agreement with "Sigma>Simulation Products", and, without a court order, they cannot>reveal the identity of the "contributor" that created this>part of the Harrier product.If I were a cynic I'd think how convenient. I'd also assume that in this agreement Sigma warrants to DSB that it is not infringing others' rights and that DSB is now actively investigating if they have and is suspending sales until the matter is resolved.>- Although the solution and .xml gauge code in question seem to>show some simularities, it is still possible (and even>"probable") that it was created independantly.If the .XML code is identical line-for-line it can hardly be said to "show some similarities". If Rob's file was published on AVSIM before the Harrier model then DSB must prove that its code was generated independently>- My claim of it being an exact copy cannot be verified>legally because my code (i.e. RCBHC-15.ZIP) is only published>on a private forum and NOT available for public viewing.>Moreover, my Copyright on this gauge code (which is allways>clearly stated in my gauges) is not recorded with a Patents>Office.If DSB is saying this it's pure bluster. Copyright comes into existence automatically when the subject matter is created. It doesn't have to be published. (It's accepted that copyright exists in private letters which are neither public or published.) Patents and Patents Offices have nothing whatsoever to do with copyright.

Hi Rob,I hope you are posting this at other sites as well. It's a shame there are thieves in this hobby, but it is no surprise.I also suggest you contact and write to the advertisers on simmarket, and advise them as well, however I did not see the Harriar at Simmarket when I checked. Maybe they pulled it already. If this turns out to be true, they should pull all their products, not just this one, but integrity in business unfortunaltely is not expressed all the time, in my opinion.I am a firm believer of where there is smoke, there is most likely fire. Have you checked or had anyone else check any of their other products for similar use of your stuff, if any?Now, IMHO, if this turns out to be verified, meaning the payware developer admits this use, then perhaps there can be a solution.These are all hypothetical, of course.1) Developer ceases all sales until this issue is resolved.2) Distributors if any, cease all sales and also state why they are ceasing sales, as there is submitted evidence of stolen work.3) Developer admits their actions, and submits apology press releases to ALL Major websites.4) Developer offers FULL 100% Refunds to all consumers who purchased product.5) Same developer, with your permission of course, comes to agreement of terms for reconciliation and to make you whole for your work.6) Said Developer with your permission offers said product as Freeware to the entire community.7) Developer scans the rest of their product line or gives you a working copy of current products to verify none of your other work is used in any of their other payware products. If So, repeat process.8) Developer lists who specifically committed this action, and who also knew about it.9) If the developer chooses not to do any of this, that is also their choice and they can reap the repercussions of their actions. They must however be accountable for their actions either way, it just depends on how they choose to answer for their actions.A developer can recover from this if they do the right thing to make everyone whole, admit their errors, submit meaningful apologies, and ensure proper compliance is in place to ensure this never occurs again to their products. This means making their team accountable for their actions.Best of luck to you.Regards,JoeGrab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

Hi mgh,These "claims" are almost literal quotes from DSB Design's Emails.Which will become appearant if/when this whole issue blows wide open; but attaching all Email corresponding with DSB Design directly is a bit overdone at this moment. Even for me :-)But I had to include SOME OF DSB Design's statements, if only to show that I had no other option left then coming forward in this forum.Cheers, Rob

When are you people going to realize that this has always happened, and will continue to happen, and there is essentially diddly-squat that you can do about it except vent in these lengthy and useless threads?

RobNo critisism of you intended.It's just that I'm cautious by nature - and no I'm not a lawyer!

>Best to everyone and may the honest parties here be rewarded.My money's on Rob, who's helped me and probably everyone out before for FREE. I seriously doubt that there's anyone who hasn't benefitted from Rob's freely given efforts. Whether directly, as I have been. Or indirectly by Rob teaching someone how to make a gauge that works that in turn ended up in a plane on your hard drive. Rob's been around long enough to not make a false allegation (not to mention one that would be easy to prove false). Nope. I full heartedly believe Rob on this one, sight unseen.DSB... make good on it, or let everyone know "D.S.B." stands for "Fergie Too."

I disagree.I think their is plenty that can be done. if this is not resolved, the community can act as one.1) They can boycott the developer.2) They can boycott any distributor that sells ANY of their other products.3) Every time that same developer releases something, they can go to the forums, link to this thread, and continue bringing it up.As of now, it looks like sigma and DSb, as I did not see the product on Simmarket, but since DSB is carrying their name, simmarket should not sell any of DSB's products until this is resolved. Their name on it, suffer the consequences of having their name on it. I guess due diligence is too hard for some, in my opinion, and attempting to disavow knowledge is a lot easier.Will others still buy. Sure, some people have no integrity whatsoever. It's a shame really.But your diddly squat nothing can be done analogy, while an opinion, I disagree with. Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

"" I am a firm believer of where there is smoke, there is most likely fire. Have you checked or had anyone else check any of their other products for similar use of your stuff, if any? ""Hi Joe,I have had suggestions to that extent, but I won't comment on that here; THIS case is simple enough as it is; and dragging other things into it, like why my good relation with DSB Design in the past (addons for the Eurofighter and Hawk, which WERE included legitemately) suddenly stopped in May 2004, when I discovered what kind of company DSB Design really is and how they do business.But again, that's history, and I will try to limit myself here to the issue at hand: dealing with facts, not my personal frustration.Cheers, Rob