I was thinking about purchasing the Harrier, but won't now, tell this all gets sorted out. It is just a shame that this stuff goes on, I was really looking forward to flying it.

RobTo my knowledge:1. David Brice is, basically, DSB. He has two or three working with him, but he is your man. And in my own experience to date, a decent man.2. He lives in Australia. It is unlikely that he has seen this thread as yet, perhaps.3. He doesn't do panels. He uses two other fellows for that, known to many in this community, who may well have subsidiary 'companies' such as Sigma. So it may well be that he does, indeed, need to check this out thoroughly with his colleagues before replying, and was honestly unaware of any copyright infringement.4. We haven't seen your full exchanges with him, only your summary of them. If, indeed, he is trying to avoid giving you a sensible reply to your (clearly valid) concerns, then I am surprised, I have to say; as most here know, DSB have produced plentiful and popular work for the community and it's just not his style to try to disguise piracy knowingly. That would kill him overnight.I suspect he is highly embarrassed about the whole thing right now if he himself has been misled. I know I am playing devil's advocate here but I would give him a little more time, perhaps. No? Too far down the track?All this said, I don't know why I'm actually writing this as I've no doubt this entry will be shot down in flames by some, rather than taken as a rational view; I just can't see that David would jeopardise his otherwise successful little business for the sake of something that he, himself, must be realising is an issue that needs to be corrected, and fast.Here's hoping all is resolved for you, in any case, and keep up your great work,Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumont[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

Sorry to hear of your trouble Rob. Just wanted to add our support alongside what Lou and Steve have expressed.Distasteful as these things are, we are glad to see you bring it to light and hold the parties reponsible for what has transpired :-)Edit: Glad to see the rational approach you have taken and also glad for the same from Mark Baumont :-)

Hi Mark,No, I don't blame you :-)But I think your info is a bit outdated.Like you, I knew David as a very sincere guy. Untill he started to be fully commercial with DSB Design. But I won't go into that yet (I'll keep it positive).1. You are wrong here.A "Max Monroe" took over DSB Design, as CEO. As you can see in all descriptions in the Product section of the DSB website. And the first Email I received from DSB Design was signed by this "Max Monroe", and o.a. stating that:"For your information, whilst Mr Brice has had a contributing part in DSB Design in the past, he no longer does, apart from assisting in enquiries from customers. He has no financial gain from DSB Design apart from any sales made from his own products since the business was signed over to me earlier this year"And the last Email I received from DSB Design on Sunday was signed:"David BriceDSB DesignSigma Simulation Products"Do you understand my "confusion" ?But if you don't mind I'll keep a few of the other "facts" to myself untill DSB Design reacts and explains everything.Best regards, ROb

Sounds like the plot thickens which is what I was suspecting anyway. (reading between the lines a bit) ;-)I still think SimMarket should pull all of the DSB Products. That is the leadership and ethical thing to do here, in my opinion.Rob, it is also heartening to see at least Sim-Outhouse letting a thread run. Sorry to hear the other sites are not getting back to you. I suspect some may just ignore it anyway.Hopefully DSB will respond tomorrow and do the right thing here.I've got some other ideas if you want to contact me by message or email.Regards,JoeGrab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

Yep, I'm out of date, sorry, Rob. I haven't visited David's site in a while, nor spoken with him since he released his Hawk series some time ago, so I've had my head in the sand, clearly.I do indeed understand your confusion, therefore! Good luck.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumont[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

>>When are you people going to realize that this has always>>happened, and will continue to happen, and there is>>essentially diddly-squat that you can do about it except>vent>>in these lengthy and useless threads?>>Edam, I have to disagree with you here. I for one will not buy>from the companies mentioned until this issue is resolved.>I'll take my diddly-squat elsewhere.>>I spend a lot of diddly-squat each month on this great hobby.>I know because my wife keeps reminding me that $300+ last>month is a bit too much diddly-squat.>>How's that!>>Regards,>> I tend to believe he meant piracy in general terms. Being a part of this hobby for many years there are very few who have not shared-loaned or downloaded something that they had not payed for. Now many can yell about this but it is what I have seen and continue to see. I am not going to judge these people because -well I don't think it's fits "a crime of the century", but truth be told it is stealing, no doubt about it but no different than those MP3 sitting on your hard drive eh? And I refuse to label every person as an evil greedy human being for doing it. Let's just be honest before so many guys here act like they have never made the same mistake, if anything I hope many will appreciate the hard work involved and pay for those things they have taken without giving what was due. As for me, I spend more money on FS than anything else, but that is all I am going to say...[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

There is more you can do about this than you might realize.I am the CEO of a music publishing business and I know what I am talking about.Generally retailers are exempt from actions for copyright infringement as should be the case because retailers cannot possibly perform thorough due diligence on each of possibly tens of thousands of products they sell.However, retailers CAN LOSE that exemption under theories of "vararious" or "contributory" infringement. Essentially, retailers become exposed to infringement actions if they KNOW about the infringement.Therefore, issuing WRITTEN NOTICE to a retailer (including on-line retailers)places them in jeopardy of losing their exemptions and basically, to use a common term, freaks them out!However, CAUTION is warranted. The purported owner of a copyright who issues such a notice and who causes another person/entity to lose sales, HAD BETTER BE RIGHT that he is the true owner of the copyright.See the link below for more information.http://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archiv...index.php?p=132

Hello everybody!I cannot proove that Rob's story is true, but I believe every word he says. And this because I had similar trouble with DSB a while ago. They were looking for a panel / gauge designer and I "got the job".They promised to pay me well (should have made my suspicious...) and so I started to paint a panel. I sent them a first version to have a look at and kept on working. A few days later DSB told me they would like to use this first version for an other version of that aircraft (it was the F-5) and of course they would pay me this with some extra money.OK, what's the end of this story? they used my panel for at least one version of the F-5 but I never got any money. Fortunately I never sent them my finished panel with all the gauges, so it isn't much money they owe me.But it is simply a matter of honor!I have to add, that DSB told me they sent the money via bank transfer, but never could offer me any proove to have done so.And I think chances are rather few that money dissapears on such kind of bank operations. So if I would express my opinion about DSB in written words this post probably would be deleted... So instead of that here my suggestion concerning DSB:Simply ignore them, meaning don't buy their products (or what they call "their" products)Herbert (meanwhile working for AlphaSim)

>Hello everybody!>>I cannot proove that Rob's story is true, but I believe every>word he says. And this because I had similar trouble with DSB>a while ago. They were looking for a panel / gauge designer>and I "got the job".>>They promised to pay me well (should have made my>suspicious...) and so I started to paint a panel. I sent them>a first version to have a look at and kept on working. >>A few days later DSB told me they would like to use this first>version for an other version of that aircraft (it was the F-5)>and of course they would pay me this with some extra money.>>OK, what's the end of this story? they used my panel for at>least one version of the F-5 but I never got any money. >>Fortunately I never sent them my finished panel with all the>gauges, so it isn't much money they owe me.>>But it is simply a matter of honor!>>I have to add, that DSB told me they sent the money via bank>transfer, but never could offer me any proove to have done>so.>>And I think chances are rather few that money dissapears on>such kind of bank operations. >>So if I would express my opinion about DSB in written words>this post probably would be deleted... >>So instead of that here my suggestion concerning DSB:>>Simply ignore them, meaning don't buy their products (or what>they call "their" products)>>>Herbert (meanwhile working for AlphaSim)Very interesting :)

Seems everyone that's ever done some work for DSB has ran into some serious problems when it comes to getting paid. I made 3 official promo videos for the Hawk plus a few preview ones which were originally available on the Alpha Sim site for a short while and then on the DSB forums.I never saw a penny of the agreed money and eventually was just deleted off the members page without so much as being informed.Having said that and worked for them, I honestly have doubts that 'Sigma Simulation Products' even exists, but that is not quite the topic at hand here.Going from the website, it claims. "Darren Taylor, one of our busiest modellers is currently working on finishing his new AV-8B Harrier II product in conjunction with Max Monroe, and while it's still early days, it is shaping to be another beautiful model worthy of the DSB logo."I would assume this aircraft became the GR7. There are less visual differences between the original AV-8B to the GR7 than any other Harrier II varient. Pretty much all the differences are at the front of the nose. (The earlier GR5 had a fairly distinctive nose which looked like a big notch of the underside had been carved out)

Hi Joe,Sorry Joe. Having now reread your post carefully, it is clear I can dismiss any claims for originality of thought :( I guess my memory let me down on this occasion as I was striving to pursue the moderate line between 2-3am earlier today.In any event, the subsequent contributions to this thread may well turn the whole thing on it's head and any pleas for clemency, while well-intentioned, could, in the end, prove to have been sadly misplaced. What a mess!There now appears to be little doubt that the plot is thickening!Regards,Mike

>When are you people going to realize that this has always>happened, and will continue to happen, and there is>essentially diddly-squat that you can do about it except vent>in these lengthy and useless threads?What a ridiculous response!Companies that knowingly make money by pirating, or ANY OTHER BLATANT FORM OF MISREPRESENTATION deserve to be fully exposed in forums like this because, at the end of the day, 'informed' buying decisions on the part of the community can then realistically be made. And, in most cases, the most effective way of stopping practices like this is to hit where it really hurts, i.e. the company's sales/bank account.To call threads like this 'useless' and to suggest '....there's diddly-squat that you can do about it....' is tantamount to condoning it. Shame on you!Toni.

>Moreover, my Copyright on this gauge code (which is allways>clearly stated in my gauges) is not recorded with a Patents>Office.I am by no means a law expert Rob, but patents on Software have been done away by the EU. So your copyright doesn't need to be patented.Take a look at this site perhaps you can find some helpful information. Good luck to you.http://swpat.ffii.org/

...>>I still think SimMarket should pull all of the DSB Products. >That is the leadership and ethical thing to do here, in my>opinion.>...Hmmm, well, I've waded through each post here (dry and dusty reading it is :D ). I do NOT agree with the statement above in regard to SimMarket. My own personal stance is that they have done exactly what they should have done when apprised of the situation. I must point out that all these posts stating the obviousness of plagiarism are only OPINIONS still, not findings of fact. For them (SimMarket) to do what is suggested is to act as judge in the matter and it isn't their place to do so. FWIW, I've dealt with SimMarket as a customer for a goodly time now and have always felt them to be a fair and aboveboard company. Sad that they are caught in the middle, so to speak. :-8 Oy Veh! Signs of the times. Sigh!