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Brenchen

Study Level Sim List

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Hi all,

 

I've been doing some wondering and searching, but from what I could find, there is not really a compiled list of our (recreational/civil) "Study Level Sim" (SLS) addons.  I can't imagine there will be too many out there that can be considered a SLS, so I'm just going to start naming ones I know of, and if anyone would like to share what else (modern platform independent) they consider as an SLS, please do so!

 

I feel an SLS should be something that pilots can get hold of, use real world manuals to fly the addon and the addon will respond exactly as a real world aircraft/FFS would.  So here's what I'm aware of:

 

[X-Plane]

  • Dreamfoil R22

  • Dreamfoil Bell 407

  • LES Saab 340a

  • X-Trident Bell 412

[FSX/FSX:SE]

  • Dodosim Bell 206
  • FSLabs Concorde
  • PMDG JS1400, B744, MD11
  • Leonardo "Maddog" MD80
  • Marcel Felde (Aerosoft) Diamond DA20-100 4X

[P3D v2/FSX/FSX:SE]

  • A2A range
  • Majestic Dash-8 Q400 (MJC8)
  • PMDG NGX, B772/3
  • RealAir Duke and Turbine Duke v2
  • VRS F/A-18E Super Bug

[standalone]

  • Aerowinx PSX B744
  • FlightDeck A3xx

 

What did I miss?!

 

Cheers,

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FSX. no SE, no P3D. Just plain ol' FSX

Leonardo Software "Maddog" MD80

PMDG Jetstream JS1400

 

It's old and you really need to use it in 2d cockpit, but:
Level D Simulations 767-300

 

FSX/FSX-SE/P3D

Majestic Software Dash-8 Q400 "MJC8" DH8D

 

And for a simulator that doesn't run on FSX, FSX-SE, P3D, Xplane or anything else:
http://aerowinx.com

 

Aerowinx PSX 747-400 precision simulator

This is the software that runs the full-sized full motion simulator used by WorldFlight. (Click the image in my sig for more info)

 

(It is linked via computer networks so that the Aerowinx avionics power an FSX/P3D external view)

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Here's a few that I can think of...

 

FSX: 

Marcel Felde (Aerosoft) DA20-100 4X

Dodosim Bell 206

VRS F/A-18E

 

X-Plane:

Dreamfoil R22

Dreamfoil Bell 407

X-Trident Bell 412

 

Independent:

Aerowinx PSX B744

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All noted thanks.  It's good to see the X-Plane section building up, and more helicopters are stacking up too!

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[P3D v2/FSX/FSX:SE]
A2A range
FSLabs Concorde
Majestic Dash-8 Q400 (MJC8)
PMDG NGX, B772/3
RealAir Duke and Turbine Duke v2
VRS F/A-18E Super Bug

 

Concorde is FSX only. 

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The Flight1 B200 is close to study sim level.

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The Aerosoft Twin Otter Extended definitely deserves a place on that list.  I believe it's boxed FSX + P3D.

 

For RealAir, you can probably add the Lancair Legacy, it's definitely up there with the Dukes (which are both at V2 btw)

 

If you are looking at non-FSX/XP/P3D platforms, might want to also consider DCS, it's probably the only other major platform outside the ones listed which has true study level sims.

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DCS World:

 - UH-1H

 - Mi-8

 - KA50

 - A10C

 - F86

 - Mig15

 - Mig21

 - P51d

 - Fw190 D9

 - Me109 K4

 

ELITE:

 - Premium or Pilot edition ( still the best available desktop GA IFR training tool, IMO - here a review I made sometime ago )

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Ahh guess I've passed the time where I can edit my post so can't add these on...  Oh well...

 

The Aerosoft Twin Otter Extended definitely deserves a place on that list.  I believe it's boxed FSX + P3D.

 

For RealAir, you can probably add the Lancair Legacy, it's definitely up there with the Dukes (which are both at V2 btw)

 

If you are looking at non-FSX/XP/P3D platforms, might want to also consider DCS, it's probably the only other major platform outside the ones listed which has true study level sims.

I thought there was also a recent release of Twin Otter beyond the Aerosoft one?  Is that one any good?  I forgot whom by...

 

ELITE:

 - Premium or Pilot edition ( still the best available desktop GA IFR training tool, IMO - here a review I made sometime ago )

ELITE!  I have never heard of that, will check out your review :)

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I thought there was also a recent release of Twin Otter beyond the Aerosoft one?  Is that one any good?  I forgot whom by...

 

I'm not aware of another for FSX/P3D (though the X Extended version is the third rendition of the Twotter by Aerosoft).

 

There is a recent X-Plane release by RWDesigns which seems to have decent reviews but it's not clear that it's a proper study sim, though the Twotter is hardly a sophisticated aircraft!

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...

 

There is a recent X-Plane release by RWDesigns which seems to have decent reviews but it's not clear that it's a proper study sim, though the Twotter is hardly a sophisticated aircraft!

 

I believe that's it, I think it was by RWDesign, good find :)

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PMDG 737NGX and 777 should also be included.

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PMDG 737NGX and 777 should also be included.

 

They already are, under FSX/FSX:SE/P3D.

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Not many GA type SLSs ey?  Carenados and Alabeo's stuff look good, but anyone keen to comment whether they can be considered SLSs?  Flight dynamics any realistic?

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Not many GA type SLSs ey?  Carenados and Alabeo's stuff look good, but anyone keen to comment whether they can be considered SLSs?  Flight dynamics any realistic?

 

A2A all of their stuff. Carenados and Alabeo resembles a bicycle with training wheels. 

 

image.jpg

  • Upvote 1

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To be honest, a few of those aircraft listed through this thread aren't quite at the level of study sims, in my opinion. 

 

The definition could be highly open to interpretation, but to me, a study sim is defined not only by the quality of the simulation, but by how much of the aircraft is simulated.  A true study level simulation should have as close as possible to full systems simulation, right down to the circuit breakers. Very, very few developers go to those lengths; in many cases, I don't believe the added complexity and cost of development are worthwhile to do so.

 

As such, it's pretty rare to see study level sims outside of popular airliners, where a dedicated user might fly nothing but that plane for years on end.

 

It's a very vague area though.  For example, many would consider the current MJC Q400 a 'study sim', since the areas that are simulated follow the manual very precisely.  However, there are areas of the aircraft not currently modeled, most of these are set to release with the upcoming 'pro' version.

 

So, the question then becomes:  If a simulation allows the user to follow the instructions given in a certain percentage of the operating manual perfectly, it could possibly be defined as a study level simulation, but what percentage makes it so?
 

A good guideline might be the percentage of operable controls in the aircraft that have the proper, real world effect when used.  If you apply that guideline at a high percentage (100% - 90%), very esteemed releases quickly fall off of this list.

 

Just food for thought.

 

Oh, and if you start to rank the Carenado / Alabeo releases by those guidelines, you'll quickly see that they don't even come close.  However, in their defense, they were never intended to.  Different segment of the market.

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Although I do not own it, I would also include in this category a product for X-Plane 10 - LES / X-Aviation Saab 340, as well as the FlyJsim 727, and of course the upcoming PMDG DC6 and XEG 737.

 

If I would buy ( again ) and install XP10, which I really do not believe I will, it would be as a base for the LES Saab 340, the XEG 737, and the PMDG DC6.

 

To give an example of where flight dynamics and study sim aren't necessarily implied by each other, I can mention ELITE, which has great flight dynamics provided the modules are flown withing the normal IFR envelope (just don't stall them, or put it into inverted flight, or try to perform loops, but sideslips / fwd slips are OK), with ground landing being a true misery, or DCS World where the ww2 birds are indeed fully detailed / clickable, like other modules for that sim, but as far as I am concerned, nothing comes closer to the feel of those wonderful war machines like IL2 BoS, where most functions are executed automatically and we cant even interact with the cockpit using clickable objects, but the flight and overall physics modeling is superb, (IMO superior to what is presently provided in DCS World, or in any other flight simulator in as far as prop flight dynamics are concerned...). Or even PMDG, that brings for p3d and fsx the top in simulating NGX, 777, ... but, being dependent on the underlying MSFS limitations in terms of flight dynamics, brings moments of true deception when you try some maneuvers that the core flight dynamics aren't able to deal with, the same applying IMO, btw, to A2A's or RealAir's  excellent models....

 

I did try the Q400, and it is surely a study sim, and uses an outside flight dynamics engine, but there was some strange feel about the way it performed under some circumstances... 

 

I'd say the APEX of flight simulation as a study sim is probably Aerowinx PSX, of which I am a proud owner. This 747-400 simulation is so detailed that it even goes further than some LevelD 744 sims in some aspects, and it has remarkable flight dynamics. The default visuals are rather limited though, but do serve the purpose of the sim, although fsx, p3d and xp10 can easily be used for external views...

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For RealAir, you can probably add the Lancair Legacy, it's definitely up there with the Dukes (which are both at V2 btw)

 

I've always associated study sims with complex systems and procedures, but this thread has made me reassess that idea. Flight dynamics can certainly be an aspect of study, and though the Lancair Legacy is very simplistic systems-wise it is spectacular in the flight dynamics category. It's possible to learn aerobatic maneuvers straight from the book and apply them in practice within FSX using this addon. It has taught me much about aerobatics, angle of attack, and stalls, and remains predictable yet challenging in its control responses.    

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I was about to start a new thread on this topic, but a search turned up this thread. Not sure if this counts as "necro-posting" but the information here is very relevant. With my own original question answered (it was effectively the same question posed by the OP), and if the definition of "study level" is "it work sin the sim as it does in the real world, and controls do the same thing in the sim as they do in the real world", meaning that even the humble A2A Cub qualifies even though it lacks even an electrical system - and I would agree wholeheartedly with its inclusion, I was wondering how people feel about these...

 

  • RAZBAM Metroliner
  • Digital Aviation (Aerosoft) Piper Cheyenne
  • SigWings An-2 Colt
  • Captain Sim 737 & 757
  • Aerosoft Catalina

 

Or, to put it another way...if Carenado Alabeo are, say, 50%, and PMDG/Maddog are 100%. What percentage would the above weigh in at?

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