To get a Prepar3d v3 refund or not, that is the question

[Manny 1,293]

IMO, you may want to work with V3 and get it to work.. its benefits outweigh the initial issues you may have with it.

 

JMO,

[simbio 56]

Buy another SSD plug it install W7 or W10 install V3 and test it with all the addon you want.

Then boot and choose which version you want, you can even link scenery directly from the old drive and no need to reinstall as long are not complex stuff like Flightbeam FSDT and others.

V3 it's a major change in the market and finally LM have worked on the right direction to change a platform that have been getting dust since Microsoft left the game.

Finally we can enjoy our simulation with little strutter and less OOM nightmare with our beloved addon.

[JRBarrett 3,080]

I want to fly the NGX in my V2.x and when I so choose to load Up V3.X and fly it there, under the same license.

 

And you CAN do this, IF you run 2.5 and 3.0 on separate computers. The PMDG licenses for both the NGX and T7 for P3D specifically permit end users to install the software on two computers - as long both are owned and controlled by the license holder, and as long as both computers do not run the software at the same time. I filed a support ticket a few days ago with PMDG to let them know that I wanted to run my copy of the P3D T7 on two individual machines - one with 2.5 and one with 3.0, and they confirmed that this was permitted.

 

The problem that prevents the aircraft from being installed in 2.5 and 3.0 at the same time, ON THE SAME COMPUTER is a technical issue - not a case of a licensing violation or any kind of "decree" by Robert Randazzo. If you read his entire post, (only part of which you have quoted), he said that because of the way that the software installs itself in the Windows environment, it is not technically possible to have it active on both 2.5 and 3.0 at the same time, on the same computer - thus you have to choose which version you want to use - 2.5 or 3.0. If you want to use it in 3.0, you must uninstall it from 2.5.

 

The gist of his post was that fixing the issues that prevent this from being possible would require substantial re-work of the software, and at this point in time, PMDG is not prepared to do that -most likely because of all the other projects they have going on at the moment

 

My only objection to your initial and subsequent posts, is that you keep saying that "Robert Randazzo" (i.e. PMDG) will not "let" the software run on both P3D platforms at the same time - that he has issued an "edict" to this effect.

 

When you put it in those terms - it seems to me that you are implying that PMDG has deliberately, nefariously and with malice aforethought, crippled the software to prevent it from running on both versions - and I am quite confident that this is not the case. Reading the post from Robert in its entirety, it is clear to me that the underlying design of the software - the way it registers itself in Windows, and the way that the PMDG DRM system operates, makes it impossible to link it to 2.5 and 3.0 simultaneously on a single computer, single OS situation - and that correcting those issues would involve more time and expense than they are willing to commit to at this time.

 

The issue of "breaking" the later updates of the FSX versions of the T7 and NGX (to prevent them from installing into P3D version 1.4) is an entirely different matter. That was done for perfectly valid reasons - because PMDG's licensing agreements with Boeing for the original FXS NGX and T7 prohibited those versions from being used in any platform other than FSX.

 

I perfectly understand your desire to keep your 2.5 installations of the T7 and NGX fully functional, while you try them out in Version 3.0 - and you can - as long as you run the two versions of P3D on two separate computers. I realize that this is not a practical solution in your particular case - but it is "a" solution.

[Poppet 710]

There was a certain 'poetry' to how Chas narrated that. Cool way of posing a question  :smile:

 

Yes, have to agree, very well done.  Enjoyed that.   Cool voice as well 

[hesynergy 67]

Buy another SSD plug it install W7 or W10 install V3 and test it with all the addon you want.

Then boot and choose which version you want, you can even link scenery directly from the old drive and no need to reinstall as long are not complex stuff like Flightbeam FSDT and others.

V3 it's a major change in the market and finally LM have worked on the right direction to change a platform that have been getting dust since Microsoft left the game.

Finally we can enjoy our simulation with little strutter and less OOM nightmare with our beloved addon.

been there did that...but thanks...the one thing that keeps me from V3, is not being able to run my PMDG NGX and T7 ...concurrently...

 

Chas

[vgbaron 3,667]

been there did that...but thanks...the one thing that keeps me from V3, is not being able to run my PMDG NGX and T7 ...concurrently...

 

Chas

I have neither of the products mentioned but can you not just uninstall/reinstall to the version of your choice as part of your initial preflight setup?

 

Running them concurrently it appears is not going to happen, at least not in the forseeable future. It is also quite possible that other products will have the same issues.

 

So back to your original question - it might be rephrased a tad - should I stay with a version that will no longer be supported or go with a newer version that is under continual development.

 

What you WANT is not going to happen, live with it.

 

Your sim, your call...

 

Vic

[hesynergy 67]

 

"And you CAN do this, IF you run 2.5 and 3.0 on separate computers"

 

. ...thanks, I'll run out and buy another one...no prob!

 

"he said that because of the way that the software installs itself in the Windows environment, it is not technically possible to have it active on both 2.5 and 3.0 at the same time, on the same computer - thus you have to choose which version you want to use - 2.5 or 3.0. If you want to use it in 3.0, you must uninstall it from 2.5."

 

Yes, and who calls the shots at PMDG? Ergo, who decides policy ergo, who tells the coders what to code?

 

...I firmly believe that was a financial choice...

 

I stick by the "let" the software run on both P3D platforms at the same time - that he has issued an "edict" to this effect.

 

"When you put it in those terms - it seems to me that you are implying that PMDG has deliberately, nefariously and with malice aforethought, crippled the software to prevent it from running on both versions - "

 

No, you inferred

"nefariously and

with malice aforethought,....."

 

I would say , callously and with greed a forethought

 

"and I am quite confident that this is not the case. "

 

We shall have agree to disagree on this point...

 

Those are my perceptions, thus my reality.

 

While I will entertain evidence to the contrary, nuff said by me on that particular sub-topic.

 

 

Thanks for your feedback,

 

Chas

[Kuragiman 227]

 

 

 

No, it was a result of people just like you wanting to NOT have to re-install P3D after each update ... hence LM setting it up (via .cfgs) and recommending 3rd party devs install their products OUTSIDE of P3D root that way P3D CAN update itself WITHOUT stepping on 3rd party toes (aka files) and/or requiring you to re-install everything.

 

 

I think you misunderstood my bantering Rob.  I am also not ONE OF THOSE customers.  I didn't give a rats #%@ if I had to install it all again or not.  It doesn't take that long to do.  What I do care about is any of the dozens and dozens of add-ons not working at all because of changes made outside of what a 3rd party vendor was expecting.    I am not spreading any information.   I am making an observation point based on other threads I have been lurking in.    I am sure it gets frustrating trying to explain it.   It is equally frustrating to have things not work because one demograph of customers belly-ached about installs.   I was not one of them.  As I said,  I don't care.   It was never an issue for me from 2.2 on up to 2.5.

 

V3 is an epic upgrade worthy of the upgrade money though people.   I have given it a try and it is more than just a bug patch.   Now... 3rd party people.. GET TO WORK!   I want to transfer my entire flight platform over to 3.0 by Sunday!  Chop chop!

[MikeT707 1,181]

T

I feeling torn between both v2.x and V3...mostly because the contrived "Randazzo Edict". Mr. R has decreed that he neither let the T7 nor the NGX live in both V2 and v3 worlds simultaneously.

 

 My thoughts Chas

Life is short. Enjoy 2.5 until you feel 3.x is sufficiently supported by the third parties that are working hard to make their products compatible. This should only take a few weeks is all with the exception being ORBX, which takes a bit longer to create installers for their vast portfolio of products. Once the thrid party products that you care about are in v3, then make the switch. v3 is a superior platform and performs better than 2.5, plus you will be tempted even more once LM starts to create more features in 3.1 and beyond.

[JRBarrett 3,080]

...and who calls the shots at PMDG? Ergo, who decides policy ergo, who tells the coders what to code?

 

...I firmly believe that was a financial choice...

 

 

Sorry Chas, but that makes no sense. What financial advantage exists for PMDG in deliberately preventing a customer from running the T7 in both versions of P3D on the same machine?

 

It WOULD make sense IF they sold both a 2.5 and 3.0 version of the T7 and NGX. Obviously they could double their revenue by selling the software twice. But they do not have two versions - just one. The P3D T7 itself has not changed - the only thing PMDG did was to update the installer so it could recognize the new Version 3 installation folders.

 

If PMDG was really motivated by greed as your "perceptions" tell you - they would be bending over backwards to make both a 2.5 and 3.0 version of the T7 - (sold separately), but they are not doing so. In fact, various PMDG spokespersons on the forum have urged users to consider adopting P3D 3.0 exclusively, as the 777 (in particular) runs much more reliably on the new platform due to the much improved VAS handling Version 3 offers.

 

And if the company was primarily motivated by greed, why do they permit customers who happen to own two computers, to use their single license on two separate machines? If "greed" was the motivating factor - they would insist that each machine requires it's own unique license (just as MS Windows itself does), but that is not the case.

[hesynergy 67]

And if the company was primarily motivated by greed, why do they permit customers who happen to own two computers, to use their single license on two separate machines? If "greed" was the motivating factor - they would insist that each machine requires it's own unique license (just as MS Windows itself does), but that is not the case.

I cannot fault your comment re PMDG not charging a P3D3.0 upgrade fee, and you make a lot of sense regarding my ill considered words regarding Greed....my fault for not responding, rather reacting, to your "nefarious", and "malice aforethought" inference.

 

For that gaff, I apologize to those who took offense, especially to Mr. Randazzo. However, I stand by the original comments as the topic originator.

 

Regards,

 

Chas

[TrafficPilot 121]

I've just returned from a few months off to find Lockheed Martin want me to pay again for P3D.

 

P3D market this as a professional product but the latest update appears to contain an animated man and trees that wave at you when you look at them.

 

P3D now uninstalled and back to FSX Steam edition.

 

As we say in the U.K - "they're taking the p1ss"

 

For training purposes this product is no better than Microsoft FSX.

[JRBarrett 3,080]

I cannot fault your comment re PMDG not charging a P3D3.0 upgrade fee, and you make a lot of sense regarding my ill considered words regarding Greed....my fault for not responding, rather reacting, to your "nefarious", and "malice aforethought" inference.

 

For that gaff, I apologize to those who took offense, especially to Mr. Randazzo. However, I stand by the original comments as the topic originator.

 

Regards,

 

Chas

That's fair. I should not have used "nefarious" and "malice aforethought" in my one response either.

 

Other than perhaps an "agree to disagree" about PMDG, I understand and agree with your feelings in your initial post. Everything in the flight sim world is in a constant state of flux and change right now, and though change is often good, I can see where you could become frustrated by always having to "chase the red dot".

 

No doubt you would simply like to have a stable sim platform that works well, so you can actually enjoy using it.

 

I personally am impressed with many of the improvements in Version 3 of P3D, but it's still so new that it will take quite a while for the dust to settle, and for all the major add-on developers to get on board - though there has been a lot of progress in a short time in that regard.

 

Whether to keep or refund is a decision only you can make. You've already made the financial investment to purchase it, and the time investment to download it. If you don't have an immediate need for the money from a refund, perhaps it would be best to hang on to your Version 3 installer.

 

Though things are in a bit of disarray now - in 6 months, the situation will likely be much improved. It would at least save you the trouble of having to purchase and download all over again.

[hesynergy 67]

Dammit...why do you have to be so reasonable....I thought we had a fur ball on our hands...grin....yeah...to you and MikeT707, i've already bought it, I've already installed it. I will continue to look at , and use V3.... I still have 55 days to demure, I am pretty sure I would eventually be buying it even if I did get a refund.

 

...I just have this niggling concern in the back of my mind, about whether I would have been better off by waiting 6 months before I even bought it, and I really can't tell you why.

 

So for now, I think will enjoy the best of all worlds which is the use of all my DLC, my add-on goodies in 2.5, including the NGX and T7. Then, once all the add-ons that are important to me have V3 installers, I'll finally move my PMDG products over V3. Sound like a good trade off?

 

Chas

[Bobsk8 12,754]

Dammit...why do you have to be so reasonable....

 

That is what I am going to do, wait maybe 6 months until it is patched, and ready for prime time. In the mean time I am enjoying the heck out of 2.5.