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flynman33

Windows 10 Upgrade Or Stay......

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Windows 10 Upgrade Or Stay with Widows 7 64bit?

 

I am running FSX and FSX-SE.

 

So should I stay or should I GO 4 it?

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I performed the upgrade and had zero problems with FSX:SE or any addons (i have an insane number of addons).

 

Overall system performance (Windows) is better as well.

 

I've only read about one person who had a problem with the conversion, but if you're concerned about that you can download the full installer to a thumb drive or ISO to burn it to a DVD and run the complete install rather than the conversion.

 

Best of l=luck!

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Has not this discussion been flogged to death  discussed before?

(on this forum, the FS2004 forum, the Windows 10 forum right here on AVSIM?),

:p0302: :t0152:

 

Simple answer... try it, you can always roll back to your previous OS without loosing a thing.

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Has not this discussion been flogged to death discussed before?

 

Probably, but threads tend to get pretty long, and sometimes it's difficult to pull out good and/or applicable information from the not so good or relevant info.  From that perspective, I'll say the matter has been been flogged for the OP, who was simply looking for information.

 

I truly do understand your point, but for the reasons stated above and other reasons, AVSIM's policy is not to prevent users from posting, even if the matter has been raised before.

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OK, my upgrade went very well, no problems at all. FS9 (3x versions), FSX (now dumped) & my P3D all worked perfectly, when I upgraded my i5 4GB laptop from Windows 7 to Windows 10 by using the Media Creation tool from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

 

This worked far better, I also upgraded my other Windows 8.1 laptop (Celeron, 2GB) using this tool instead of the update icon on the bottom right of the screen that would not work properly.

 

The only thing that did not work was my built-in web cam on the Windows 7 laptop, as it is a generic cam & the last drivers were dated 2007! Everything else worked. Just for testing, I rolled back twice to my previous operating system & them re-installed Windows 10. No losses or problems at all.

 

So, go for it.

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I had numerous problems with Windows 10 and ended up reinstalling 4 times. My advice would be do it from scratch by dropping partications etc and then have a look at this video

 

https://youtu.be/DwiHog2leMM

 

This shows how to turn off all the crap

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As I said, I've had no problems, on 2x machines. maybe I'm just one of the fortunate ones. Oh, it also seems that the laptops run faster, as do the sims when starting up.

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I'm curious why people call it an 'upgrade'. What's better about 10 over 7 specifically for FS? Higher fps? Doubt it.

 

I'm not including 8 in this because we all know how flawed that OS was.

 

Do you still have control over what updates are applied by Microsoft? If not then that is still a major problem for me.

 

And one other point. If it wasn't free for 7 & 8 owners would you buy it?

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It's called an upgrade because it is something up from something else, upgrading Windows 7 or 8.1 to Windows 10

An update is what happens on Tuesday's. An update makes something more current.

 

8 was updated to 8.1

Main support for Windows 7 stopped in January 2015, Windows 8 support in January 2016!

 

As far as auto updates go, why on earth would you want this restricted?

Before Windows 10 we all were possibly up to date with updates.

As said on ZDNET:

The number one complaint people have about Windows 10 is that it forces patches down their throat. Good! There are too many security dolts using Windows who are making the net unsafe for all of us.

Why? Because year after year it's been shown that most users can't be trusted to keep their systems up to date. That, in turn, means that millions of PCs are owned every day by malware using bugs that were patched ages ago.

Most botnets are powered by unprotected Windows systems and that, in turn, means all of us get attacked because clueless people won't update their systems.

 

Historically, there have been way too many Windows patches over the years that break working systems. Even so, automatic updates are better than having millions of out-of-date, unsafe systems on the net.

Still, as Ed Bott, ZDNet's resident Windows expert, said, "On the other side of the equation, making this decision means Microsoft takes on a major responsibility to not screw things up. They have to earn the trust that auto updates will work."

What if you can't stand this idea of patches being shoved down your throat? Well, Microsoft isn't publicizing it, but there is a Windows 10 troubleshooter package to give you more control. It's called "How to temporarily prevent a Windows or driver update from reinstalling in Windows 10," KB3073930. This enables you to hide or block Windows Updates and -- the most likely source of Windows 10 patch problems -- Driver updates.

 

Would I buy it if it was not free?

Of course, why would I want an obsolete unsupported operating system that is probably not really optimised for the latest hardware.

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Robin,

 

Ah so because the OS number is incremented it's deemed to be an upgrade. Does that make the newer one better? I have my doubts simply because Microsoft employs thousands of people and they need something to do.

 

There may well be things in 10 that weren't in previous OS but unless the user needs them what's the point in having them?

 

Many of us have a specialist PC purely for FS and I see nothing in 10 that FS needs. Therefore I have no need for the new OS.

 

Why would I want updates restricted? Because I want to choose what's changed on my PC. I accept most updates but after the outcry following the W10 'adverts' that started appearing in 7 around a year ago I look upon updates in a different light.

 

I want to choose when I update my nVidia drivers, not Microsoft. It should be a user choice, not forced on us assuming we're all incapable of controlling our PCs.

 

Of course, why would I want an obsolete unsupported operating system that is probably not really optimised for the latest hardware.

 

It's not obsolete if it's supported until 2020. I doubt W10 will optimise my Saitek yoke any better than W7 does.

 

And I'll ask again. Does FS run any better under 10 than 7? If it doesn't and I haven't seen any posts to suggest it does then what's the point if that PC is used purely for FS?

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I performed the upgrade and had zero problems with FSX:SE or any addons (i have an insane number of addons).



Overall system performance (Windows) is better as well.

 

Well, lets agree to disagree on this...

 

But 8 was upgraded to 8.1 to correct errors. Yes, 8 was a dog, as Vista was.

 

Interesting that you feel that Microsoft's business model is keeping their staff gainfully employed to feed their product to us consumers.

 

There are quite a lot of us that find Windows 10 to be faster, somehow.

 

Anyhow.... If you are happy, stick with what you have..

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There are quite a lot of us that find Windows 10 to be faster, somehow.

 

Anyhow.... If you are happy, stick with what you have..

If someone did a proper fps test that proved beyond all doubt that FSX under 10 was x% faster than under 7 I would definitely consider changing providing x was at least 10. But subjective tests are a different matter.

 

Each to their own of course. :smile:

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It will be impossible to do any sort of test.

Our PC's & configuration are unique

Our collection of software also

Our add-ons are unique as well... the list goes on..

The results of any test done is only valid for that particular PC on which it has been done, & possibly of interest only to the tester him/herself.

 

The phrase "Analysis Paralysis"comes to mind.

As, I'm sure you know, various tests have been done, with very conflicting results, proving nothing.

 

There is no 'Holy Grail' out there, be it the search for operating systems or simulations.

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I performed the upgrade and had zero problems with FSX:SE or any addons (i have an insane number of addons).

 

Overall system performance (Windows) is better as well.

 

I've only read about one person who had a problem with the conversion, but if you're concerned about that you can download the full installer to a thumb drive or ISO to burn it to a DVD and run the complete install rather than the conversion.

 

Best of l=luck!

Same here. No issues so far in FSX-SE, only.

 

 

Do you still have control over what updates

Yes, Ray. Computer Active mag(WHS) showed how to do it a few weeks ago. If you want, I'll scan the relevant pages and PM you with them.

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Yes, Ray. Computer Active mag(WHS) showed how to do it a few weeks ago. If you want, I'll scan the relevant pages and PM you with them.

No thanks Rick but thanks for the offer. I may look at changing just before the free period ends.

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I updated two PCs (not running FSX) and all went smooth and overall I like W10.  But I'm still running 8.1 (I know...) on a newly built I7-4790K / GTX970 PC that is my FSX-MS (and fast general purpose) machine, I get fantastic performance BTW.  But the only reason I haven't updated yet is that I can't pause OneDrive sync while running FSX.  Does anyone else think this is an issue and how do you handle it?  I can't not use OneDrive, it's critical to how I operate on multiple machines and travelling.

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That, in turn, means that millions of PCs are owned every day by malware using bugs that were patched ages ago.

Most botnets are powered by unprotected Windows systems and that, in turn, means all of us get attacked because clueless people won't update their systems.

I agree that in some cases, forced updates in W10 are actually a really good idea (think: computer illiterate relatives that always ask for your help during the holidays with their "slow" computers!).

 

However, let's be honest. Do Microsoft's security updates really fix anything? Have you ever read the security bulletins on the TechNet website? The security updates honestly only prevent very very improbable situations, and I assume most users with common sense don't mess around with those situations that are affected. Of course, I agree that it's important to have all the latest security updates installed, but to me, these "security updates" are mostly placebo. (which is why I don't see the problem with an XP machine with all updates ever released installed, a good antivirus, and a modern web browser).

 

Now of course, in W10, I highly recommend you don't "defer upgrades", since the last major update, Version 1511 "service pack", was a great improvement to RTM.

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Ray,

 

First, hello again.

 

I've not seen, and do not believe there would be any direct improvements for running FSX/FSX:SE.  What I can tell you is that my systems (three computers thus far) and those of my teammates boot faster and run faster (one might argue "cleaner") with Windows 10 when compared to Windows 7.  I'm a former/retired computer engineer and I'm confident it's neither subjective, any type of placebo effect, or wishful thinking - the Windows side runs faster or cleaner.

 

I'm going to through one other thing out here... I held off moving to FSX Steam for a very long time, partly because of the testing commitments I had with several developers and parting because I wasn't convinced the positive Steam feedback wasn't placebo. After meeting with several developers and researching a few things, I made the move with a high degree of confidence and I for one am extremely glad that I did. The slight improvement on VAS and frame rates (both partially because of a problem Dovetail identified and corrected and how it was explained to me was with FSX the same data would in some cases be sent to two individual cores for the same processing (not load sharing, but two cores actually processing the same data). It's not snake oil, and I'm seeing a considerable increase in performance and stability.

 

I offer the info above regarding FSX Steam for those who will elect to perform a fresh install of Windows 10. 

If anyone switches to FSX:Steam after installing Windows 10, it would be great if you could report back after making several flights in hgih-end payware aircraft models as I'm sure it would be helpful to others reading this thread.

 

Everyone else:

 

To date I've upgraded (converted, if you prefer) three computers and I'm about to do another (i7 laptop, and that will leave a dual core laptop which I won't convert as there probably aren't any compatible W10 drivers for some of the components AND I'm getting ready to dump/donate it anyway.

 

I haven't had any problems whatsoever, but my systems were all kept up to date on everything from bios to drivers, C++ and Dot Net, and I don't know if the latter two really made a difference or not.  We had almost all our team members perform the conversation (some with multiple computers) and omitting one person with a dual core Pentium we had one person who had a problem running the conversation and then opted for the full install. FSX:SE is running extremely well, but it was running extremely well before the conversion. I have a substantial number of FSX Addons ranging from taxing commercial airliners from several different developers to a LOT of payware scenery and utilities.

 

CONVERSION OR INSTALLATION?

 

I certainly agree with two things... a system image before one attempts the conversation, and the fail safe (safest / best) way to do this is to download the ISO to a thumb drive or DVD and perform a clean install (with all the prerequisite drive maintenance being done first.

 

I sincerely and humbly provide this information above, gained from my own personal experience, in hopes that others may find it helpful.

 

Best of luck, and happy flights!

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I did a clean Upgrade from Windows7 64-Bit Pro when I thought at first I was going to be a die-hard adamant. And the clean installation on a brand new 960Gb SSD went flawlessly. As did a fresh FSX-SE install, and a P3Dv2.5 install, and touch wood, so far no a hitch. From power button switch-on to login screen is exactly 43 seconds.

 

I'm more than happy with my Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. But every Windows OS has had its pros and cons. I know of many people who are die-hard Windows XP users,and some running Windows 98 too. They will not budge. They are happy, even if MS no longer supports their choice of OS. But hey, each to their own choice. There will always be protractors and detractors. I recall when P3D first came out. The FS2004 fan boys shot one down for advocating P3D, but now look at the uptake on P3D.

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Hi again Dave,
 

It sounds as though you do not own AES. That's the addon that adds realism to many airports. As a jet pilot AES is very important to me as I have spent £140 on it.

 

The fact that AES remains unusable with Steam or P3D is my main reason for staying with FSX:SP2. I'm not prepared to throw away that amount of money for the small but measurable improvements in Steam. Ditto for P3D even though the benefits are probably more obvious.

 

Anyway, back to W10. It probably does boot faster but unless there are clear benefits to FSX with 10 I don't see the point in switching especially as I wouldn't have a W10 installation disk. What happens x months down the road if you have a disk crash and need to reinstall Windows? You'd have to install 7 or 8 then apply the 10 update file plus lots of windows updates. Uurrgghh! I know a disk clone will negate that messy problem but I still prefer to have an installation disk for my OS.

 

You also lose XP-compatibility mode which would be important on my laptop as I have a program that requires it. Not a good move by Microsoft there.

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Anyway, back to W10. It probably does boot faster but unless there are clear benefits to FSX with 10 I don't see the point in switching especially as I wouldn't have a W10 installation disk. What happens x months down the road if you have a disk crash and need to reinstall Windows? You'd have to install 7 or 8 then apply the 10 update file plus lots of windows updates. Uurrgghh! I know a disk clone will negate that messy problem but I still prefer to have an installation disk for my OS.

What?

 

MS has the ISO for Windows 10 available here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

 

Download the tool, choose "Create installation media", and then choose whether you want to create a DVD or bootable USB installation.

 

Also, you don't have to reinstall Windows 7 then upgrade again to reinstall Windows 10. Once you do the upgrade at least once and you activate Windows, your motherboard + CPU combination will be authorised, and you can reinstall however many items you want without having to do the upgrade again. This means you can also do a clean install.

 

 

 

 

You also lose XP-compatibility mode which would be important on my laptop as I have a program that requires it. Not a good move by Microsoft there.

XP compatability mode is still there...

 

post-254482-0-68241000-1452965336.png

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Ray,

 

I know of your troubles with AES, I'm on staff at Aerosoft though I don't have any information at all on AES development. I would hope however that it is updated for FSX Steam at some point.

 

I use GSX, and while it doesn't do anything for Jetways, everything else covers the bases for me.  I will be honest with you, I warned my team members about AES when it first came out regarding having to pay for airport packages and future development - sadly, I was all too correct on both counts. I suppose that goes with having been a technical program manager for most of life... lol.

 

ANYWAY... I wanted to tell you that Windows 10 operational benefits go far past boot speed and you actually can download the ISO and burn it to a DVD (so you'll have the complete Windows 10 installation disk. Better yet, you burn it to a thumb drive, which also gives you a Windows 10 installation disk.

 

I really appreciated Windows 7, and I never, not E-V-E-R jump on ANYTHING new.  I wait, watch, research, and evaluate, It drives me crazy to see some people jump on the latest version of P3D or move to Windows 10 on the day they are released only to find that their software which was never designed to work with the new flight sim does work AND THEN write posts all over the place complaining (often LOUDLY) about software developers because their software doesn't work with the latest and greatest version of Windows or P3D. 

 

Anyway, should you decide to move to Windows 10, I don't think you would regret it. If and when you're ready to I strongly recommend the following:

 

1. Create a system image (if you have the available disk space).

 

2. Download the burn the Windows 10 ISO (I'd recommend using a Thumb Drive for several different reasons - and remember that all Thumb drives are not created equal). If you feel safer, you can burn to a DVD AND Thumb Drive. You can also do this at ANYTIME.  For some reason THIS LINK isn't as easy to find as it once was, but it's the one you want to explore a little further for yourself.

 

3. Try the conversation first so you won't have to install FSX and all the addons - UNLESS you decide to move to FSX Steam (if it were me I'd say "might as well" given the situation with AES), but certainly everyone has to make that decision for themselves.

 

 

It's nice to have a conversation with you again Ray, I'm sure we'll see one another around!  Feel free to PM me here or the other website should I be able to be of further assistance to you.

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Diego

 

That is absolutely brilliant. So well described, and laid out. You must be a teacher/instructor in R/L?

 

Nice work. Even though I've installed Windows 10 Pro 64-bit from my Windows 7Pro 64-bit, I was like Ray, a bit dubious about having to go through the whole rigmarole all over, again.

 

Just using your instructions to create that Media Tool.

 

Salient words, Dave. A lot of worth in them.That is why I waited until a few weeks ago to make the Upgrade and like you await 'teething issues to be resolved' before making any switch.

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Diego & Dave,

 

Thank you both for that very helpful advice. Who knows what will transpire in the months to come. That XP-Compatibility mode is definitely a surprise. Last time I read about 10 (which was a while back) that was definitely not included.

 

But you know, deep down I'm still wondering why Microsoft are giving away an OS. They've never done it before. And by nature I'm always suspicious of the free lunch. I can't help but feel there's something they're not telling us that may well come back to bite us.

 

I could be completely wrong but businesses don't usually do this unless there's a payback. Where's that conspiracy icon when you need it? :wink:

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Stay with Win7 for now unless you have an app/game that needs DX12 ... there are still a few annoying issues with Win10 (primarily around USB device support and security and a few 3rd party content didn't install correctly).  BUT, ask me the same question in 6 months from now and I may have a different response.

 

Win10 is 10% market share and growing slowly

Win7 is 55% market share and declining slowly

 

The OS really isn't much different from Win7, it does allow for >4GB video recordings via ShadowPlay, but I haven't seen any significant performance difference between the two (take that as plus or negative).

 

I should say, YES GO WITH WIN10 so as to increase market share so 3rd party hardware vendors will make it a priority to get proper working Win10 drivers ... but that's a selfish desire.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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